Successful Relationship with Emma

Best Practices for a Healthy, Wealthy and Financially Successful Marriage w/ Stacy Francis (Ep.7)

• Emma Viglucci • Episode 7

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How you manage the finances in your relationship is a good barometer of your relationship health… Yes, a bold statement. 

The thing is that finances equal the relationship’s resources and ability to realize the couples’ Best Life… Now, I’m not claiming that you need a ton of money to have your Best Life, nor that if you have a ton of money that you are realizing your Best Life… It’s not about the amount… 

What I am claiming is that how you manage the finances in your relationship is an indicator of the strength of your partnership and what kind of life you are able to realize… 

When there is lack of transparency, collaboration, and partnership in money management the same can potentially be found in other areas of the relationship… 

In today’s episode, I have a compelling and resourceful conversation about how to manage finances in our relationship with our partner and how to create a secure and wealthy future. And, who knew, almost anyone can become a millionaire!

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🌟ABOUT OUR GUEST:

Stacy Francis, CFP, CDFA, CES, is the President and CEO of Francis Financial, a fee-only boutique wealth management, financial planning and divorce financial planning firm dedicated to providing ongoing comprehensive advice for successful individuals, couples, and women in transitions such as divorce or widowhood. With over 20 years of experience in the financial industry and great leadership, Stacy has led Francis Financial to receive numerous recognitions and awards annually. She is also the founder of the non-profit, Savvy Ladies™ and the host of the Financially Ever After podcast. You can find her at www.francisfinancial.com.

Gift from Stacy:

~ Free Financial Help for Widows Resource Guide

~ Free Divorce Financial Help for Women Resource Guide

Find her here: 

Facebook | Linkedin | YouTube 

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🌟MENTIONED INSIDE / RESOURCES:

SavvyLadies 

Apps - PocketExpense, GoodBudget, YNAB (You Need a Budget)

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 🌟MORE ON THIS EPISODE:

Watch the YouTube Video! 

More about the podcast on our Podcast Page 

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DISCLAIMER: This content is meant to support your Journey and not as a replacement for professional assistance. Additionally, the ideas and resources provides by our guests are their ideas and recommendations alone and not necessarily a reflection of the host’s.



Emma:

Hello lovelies, welcome to another episode today. I'm so excited to bring to you my good friend, Stacy Francis of Francis Financial. She will hook us up today with a wonderful conversation about how to plan your finances with your partner. Not an easy feat, so we will talk about all the different pillars and main things that you need to have to have a healthy financial marriage and how to do that seamlessly with your partner so that you're on the same page and both of your needs get met, because seemingly, partners have different experiences with money, different money blueprints, different needs, different management styles and so on. And so today we will crack the codes on all of those items so that you could have an amazing plan for your new year or any time that you listen to this, to help you set up your finances with your partner in a wonderful collaboration and set yourselves on a good path to your financial success and enjoy your money and work your plan anytime you like, but especially this year as we launch into a new year, so that you could set up yourselves to have an amazing financial and abundant next year. I look forward to seeing you there. Stay in for a treat.

Emma:

I am so excited to be here today with my very good friend, Stacy. I am going to read her bio and then we're going to say hi to Stacy and we're going to have an amazing conversation about money. It's going to be so good. Stacy is the president and CEO of Francis Financial, a fee-only boutique wealth management, financial planning and divorce financial planning firm dedicated to providing ongoing, comprehensive advice for successful individuals, couples and women in transition, such as divorce or widowhood. She's a certified financial planner, a certified divorce financial analyst and a certified estate and trust specialist. With over 20 years of experience in the financial industry, Stacy's leadership has led Francie's Financial to receive recognition such as Forbes top women health advisors and USA Today's best financial advisory firms, and to receive numerous awards annually. She is a rock star. Hello, Stacy.

Stacy:

Hello, Emma, it's great to be here.

Emma:

I am so happy to have you and I love your bio and I love you more than your bio. You're an amazing person. I am so happy to have you here with us today.

Stacy:

This is going to be a great podcast. We've got a lot to talk about.

Emma:

Yes, we do. Should we get started? Let's go for it. Let's get started. Let's go for it. Tell me what are the key strategies that you recommend for couples who are planning their financial future.

Stacy:

You know it's interesting. I love this topic because I'm a certified divorce financial analyst, but what people don't realize is that I know a whole heck a lot about what makes a happy, successful marriage work. Number one I've seen hundreds of divorces hundreds so it's very clear the kind of threads that I see often connecting them, and one of those big threads are issues about money. I am also married for over 20 years to the most wonderful guy out there, and I know that us too, we had challenges, and so what does it come down to for successfully planning for your future?

Stacy:

Well, the number one thing that I see over and over again is talking about what you want your future to be, because the vast majority of us couples we've got a huge amount on our plate, especially if you have children. You're dividing and conquering, and one person might be dealing with the kids and school trips and medical appointments. The other one might be dealing with all the finances, and, while I understand that this is a domain where both of you need to really be involved in the finances to make sure that your financial plan the plan that we'll talk about of like what needs to be included, what are the things you need to think about. We'll talk about that. But having both included, I will tell you, is one of the top secrets to a healthy and financially successful marriage.

Emma:

I love how you started with that and your suggestion, for both partners need to be involved in the finances. What a concept. But first let me say that a lot of couples don't divide and conquer the rest of their responsibilities and they create health Because they don't know who's supposed to be in charge of what and who's taking care. I mean, there's all kinds of things in couples and relationships. So the fact that you even said you might be dividing and conquering yes, guys, that's the given. You should be doing that. So that's number one. But number two we don't want to do that when it comes to finances. Maybe, to some extent and in different ways. Maybe we could talk about that as we go in this conversation today in more ways, as it makes sense to divide and conquer when it comes to finances, but not in terms of your vision, not in terms of your plan, because you both want to have your minds together on that. You want to be on the same page, right?

Stacy:

Exactly and getting on the same page is really important. And the other thing I would just say too, about couples is that you're combining two people with completely different money DNAs and knowing that you each may have different hopes and dreams. You also may have different ways of how you feel about money. You may have different ways about how you spend or save money, and that's fine. In fact, I married someone that the antithesis of me if I have a dollar, I try and save too. I'm saving money for me is exciting.

Stacy:

My husband. If he has a dollar, he tries to spend you and he'll be the first to admit it. So we have very different money personalities, but what has made our marriage work so well, and also what has made our financial plan work so well, is we've each communicated what we need. For me, I need to make sure that whatever dollar amount we're supposed to save each year, that we do it. And that gives me that feeling of safety, of comfort, because for me, saving equals safety. And for my husband, he, you know, of course, wants to save money, but for him, he also wants to have experiences. He loves to go to concerts with my son, he loves to go to Broadway shows he loves to travel and bless Emma. He loves gadgets. If anyone ever has a gadget that they need researched, just reach out to me.

Stacy:

My husband's a professional at it especially if you're going to buy it and we're not going to buy it, but very important for him then to know, like this is the portion that you can spend. And it took us a while to get there, but now we have very clear goals and we can honor what each of us need. And for us, our goals have been set up in three places. We have a retirement goal of when we each want to retire and what our lifestyle is going to look like and cost. Number two, we have an education goal for our children of being able to help them, if not ideally pay for everything for college. And number three, a ongoing lifestyle experience goal that's more so for him than me of being able to experience life to the fullest, essentially live as full of life as possible. And so we continually talk about that. We check in and update our financial plan at least once a year to see are we on track? And, if not, what do we need to be doing to get us back on track?

Emma:

I love that, yeah. So I like how you're setting up the different DNAs right, because when you describe this very common right, there's the two people in the relationship who have their very different styles of managing money and the relationship to money and what they think about saving and spending and all this kind of stuff. I mean this is like, yeah, that's what happens in couples, right, and the thing is okay. So how do we deal with the differences? So I love what you're describing and knowing what the needs are behind the way that we do money. Like you say, it's safety for yourself and experiences that live in life for him. Knowing that, then that's a different filter than, like, why you have to be a penny pincher, why do you have to waste a lot of our money, very different than we're taking care of ourselves, our needs, our core needs, and we're collaborating, taking care of each other by having this approach that you're describing. That's so beautiful.

Stacy:

And I appreciate you sharing that and you know how we got there is we went to therapy. Perfect right, Emma. You know we met very, very young. So we were I was in my early 20s, he was about three years older, and we did not have the communication skills that we do today, and so we really had to get some help. And so that's the other thing I would say too.

Stacy:

This isn't necessarily easy stuff. People's emotions and feelings about money tend to be very strong, and it's because we've been raised to think a certain way. We've had those experiences. And so when we see individuals, couples, who have disagreements about money, studies have shown that those agreements about money versus other subjects tend to be much more confrontational. They kind of bring you know, bringing out more emotion. They tend to be much harder. And again, just making sure that you have all the tools available.

Stacy:

And I will tell you, in addition to therapy, the other thing that has been great for us, Emma, is we go on money dates, and in the beginning it was free children, so it was very nice. We could go out for a nice steak dinner, have a glass of red wine. Don't have too many, because the numbers won't make too much sense if you're on your third, but it was a really wonderful way to see where we're at with our spending, see where we're at with our income, how much progress we've made on our saving goals and talk about what we want our life to look like. Those were the times where we made decisions about are we going to have a big trip this year or are we going to stay at home, save a little bit more and do something else?

Stacy:

Questions where we would talk about, you know, do we buy a new car? Do we not buy a car? Those would all come up in those money dates. And we still continue to have them. We have kids, so they're not quite as fancy as they used to be. They typically tend to be in the morning before the kids have woken up. And you know, michael and I are sitting at the computer and maybe we're looking at our financial plan and we're looking the account balances. But we regularly are checking in about money at least once a month to make sure that we're on the same page, and it has worked wonders for each of us feeling like we're living our best life together, partnered up with a great person.

Emma:

So good and I think that you're getting ahead of yourself. You're giving everything away already. So you already have in there the practices that once a year of revising the plan, monthly money check ins to make sure that you're on the right track, that you both know what the numbers are, that you're on the same page about things. They're making the decisions. Love it. These are good practices to make sure that there is a healthy way of doing money in your relationship.

Stacy:

Yay, definitely, definitely. And you know, I know that right now for a lot of couples, you know you're feeling the squeeze of inflation, you're feeling the squeeze of higher expense costs when you are going to the grocery store, when you're going to the gas station, for all of those things. But what I want to share about becoming a millionaire the statistics of who a millionaire is will shock you. So if you feel like there's no hope, I want to just tell you the three most important things about the characteristics of a millionaire, and then the number one, most important behavior perfect. So the average income of a couple who have put a million dollars away is a lot lower than you would expect. It's $131,000 combined income.

Emma:

Combined income. I am shocked, yes.

Stacy:

Wow, now granted, you'll hear in this next statistic, they're probably not living in New York City, or?

Emma:

LA.

Stacy:

Right, because their house is worth about 320,000. Right now, the individuals that were actually studied and interviewed for this, when they shared what their actual total net worth was, is that it actually was more than a million. The average net worth for them was $3.7 million, and when I say net worth, that means the value of your home, cars, whatever that might be, plus all their investments. But those are the three statistics and I have to say the first two quite lower, much lower than I expected, much lower income than I think we all had thought and a house that's not worth nearly as much as we would expect. You think about someone of that net worth, a much higher net worth than I expected $3.7 million would be living in like a McMansion or something right. They'd have a million dollar home, maybe even two.

Emma:

Right.

Stacy:

Well, that's not the case. And what the magic is? Not only living in a house that they can afford, but it's this next behavior that makes the most sense, and that is they invest 20% of their after-tax household income every year. That is the magic. And I know that 20% is a huge number, right, because on an after-tax basis, that 131,000 that we're talking about, 20% you're looking at maybe $16,000 a year, $17,000 a year, that's a big number.

Stacy:

But these are people who maybe can't do it straight out of the gate, straight out of the gate, and they slowly are working up to it, but they eventually get there, they do it, they take their money and they invest it. And I just always want to share that with everyone listening, because you too can be a millionaire, and I will tell you. We have clients who make this number, live outside the city, new York City, and have been able to put portfolios together of $2 million, even $3 million, and it's because every year they just make that happen. They make that savings happen first and then they construct their life to live on the rest. So, really powerful, really important.

Emma:

Wow, I love that. So for everybody out there who's like, oh, I will never be a millionaire, maybe we need to reconsider that, because it's maybe not as hard as we think it is.

Stacy:

I love it, yeah, yeah. And you know what I have to say, because I feel like we have our own perception of millionaires and when we think of millionaires, we think of celebrities, rock stars, actors, and what's really interesting is when you pull back the shades and really see a lot of them actually don't have money but have this outward persona, and it's not all people. But I can't tell you, Emma, the number of celebrities that have come and asked to work with us that we can't work with because they don't reach our $2 million minimum. People that you know, people that every single one of your listeners know, right, and for them it's not an income problem, right, right, it's not an income problem at all, it's more of a spending issue.

Emma:

I love that because, yeah, people think that they need to make more money, they need to keep going up in their up the ladder in their corporate world, corporate jobs or, if they have a business to you know, get more revenue, all these different things, and it's not necessarily about making more. You don't have to make that much as you're saying it, and to some people 120 might be a lot, but still, you said, combined so that's not a, and especially for our audience, for the most part in people in New York City, that is not a tremendous amount of money, and so that means that that could be stretched and made into a significant plan used for something to plan.

Emma:

Exactly, I love that.

Stacy:

And one thing I will just say too, and I am 100% guilty of this, so I'm just being authentically vulnerable here.

Stacy:

You know, when you first get married or make a commitment to be with someone and you fast forward 20 years, something that often happens to all of us is that, as our income increases, what happens to our spending? Right, it increases too. You know, in all of you listening, if you could just close your eyes. If you're driving, do not close your eyes. But for those of you who are not to think back about those early years, right, or maybe you weren't married or coupled up, but you were just getting out of college and what you managed to live on, right, and how you did it, and most likely, you weren't significantly more unhappy than you are today, right, so it's really. I just think it's so profound that every once in a while and I have to do this too it's like check myself and say all right, stace, is this something I really need? And is this just because I have lifestyle creep and as I'm making more, I'm feeling more comfortable about spending more?

Emma:

Right, oh for sure.

Stacy:

Yeah.

Emma:

Yeah, so well, I think that you bring up a good point that people need to decide how important is it for them to be millionaires if that's the measuring stick here or how important it is to have a safety nest, a security saving thing which we're going to go into now, the whole plan thing, or having a lavish lifestyle, or what is a good lifestyle to you and save money, or like a combination of all these things, like what makes sense for you, what do you want to create in your life I think that that's the question and in how to make that happen in a way that's reasonable for yourself and for your partner, right? So why don't we go into that? So where do people start with? Creating the vision, the plan, and then what? So?

Stacy:

One of the best tools that are available free of charge for all of us is an online app or account that can actually track your spending for you, can actually track your investments for you. I have no relationship with these different places. These are just accounts in organizations that I've seen really good feedback from clients. One is called pocket expense, another is called good budget and the other one is YNAB. You need a budget. So these are three. There's actually quite a few more. There's quite a few more, but these are really good ones that we've gotten great feedback on and, like I said, it's going to track your income, what's coming in, it's going to track all your expenditures. It will track your spending. You can even put all of your accounts linked to it, and having that all in one place is very powerful.

Emma:

Okay, good.

Stacy:

So then we're going to watch our spending, we're going to watch how much money we made, we're going to track it all, and then and then you're going to make sure that you have all of the building blocks to be financially successful, and so the next step that I'd love to just take a few minutes to talk about is setting up that emergency fund. Yes, I'll explain that, and it's the number one defense you have against falling into credit card debt. So we're going to talk about that. We've talked about how much we're going to save, but the next question is well, where, where do I save? What is the best way? Is it an retirement account? Is it an investment account? And, number three, how should that money be working for me? Should it be in stocks? Should it be in bonds? Should it be in cash? Should it be in all three?

Stacy:

The emergency fund is really, you know, if you can think of emergency fund as the foundation to a house that can withstand a storm or tornado, a hurricane, that foundation is what is going to carry you through the good and bad times of your financial life, because we all have them. Yes, and an emergency fund is typically three to six months of your living expenses. So that's why those budgeting tools are going to be helpful, because you're going to see, on average, I'm spending $10,000 a month. Okay. So for a three month emergency fund, I'm going to need about 30,000. For a six month emergency fund, I'm going to need probably $60,000. And which number that's right for you is really dependent on your circumstances. If there are two of you that are working, then maybe your emergency fund can be the three months, because if, god forbid, someone loses their job, the other one has a successful income coming in. If there's only one of you working, you might want to air more towards the six month. Also, someone who has a W2 job might be closer to a three month.

Stacy:

If you are a sole proprietor or an entrepreneur which we know you two, emma, are. Income changes up and down and it sometimes not even based on our efforts. It just does happen then maybe you want to be at a six month. So these are all things to think about of what that is. Now, where do you want to keep it underneath your pillow? The answer is absolutely no. One of the amazing things, emma, that's going on right now is that interest rates are so high. Right, so you can invest in a high interest savings account, a money market account. I looked at the rates today just to kind of see yeah, over 5%, I heard of Mind blown. Mind blown that you can have your money in an FDIC, insured money market or savings account and getting 5%. That's like amazing. So if you haven't started an emergency fund, now is the absolute perfect time to do that very nice, perfect, yeah.

Emma:

So that's the first thing, and I love how you set that up, in that, if you don't, that's how your credit card goes up, because then you're depending on your credit card to manage emergencies. So this is the way to do that, very nice, okay. And then you said the investments. So you say here, like money?

Stacy:

Market.

Stacy:

Where do you put it? Like, where do you put your money? So you know, there are different buckets. There is a taxable individual brokerage account awesome, you can also call it a non-retirement account. There are retirement accounts and there's a few different kinds. And If you're saving for a goal that's further down the line let's say retirement then you want to make sure that you're saving into a retirement account.

Stacy:

The best account would be a 401k that you have with your employer, a 403b, a TDA, and the reason why that's so powerful is that often in these accounts you get a match. So you put a dollar in, your employer puts a dollar in. Okay, it's free money. Like, could you imagine? All right, so, emma, you're going and you're going to the bodega to get a sandwich and the person behind says okay, to tell you this lottery ticket. I know what the winning number is. Do you want it? Like, yeah, well, guess what? The 401k, the 403b and those free matches, that's your lottery ticket. It's your lottery ticket and it's free money, and it's money that you are 100% entitled to. So, for saving for long-term, particularly for retirement, max out those retirement dollars at work and you can put in significant amounts of money into that Now, if you are saving for something that maybe is not retirement focused, maybe it's college education for your children.

Emma:

Before we go there. So that's for people who are employed. So for those that are self-employed, we have IRAs, cep IRAs. If you're not sure, yeah, exactly.

Stacy:

So I am a self-employed. Now I'm an S corp and I have about 16 employees. But the first retirement plan when I opened my business was what's called a CEP IRA. And what's so beautiful about a CEP IRA is that you can open one up in about five minutes. There's no administration costs and it's very simple and you work with your accountant and your accountant will know, based on your earnings for that year, how much you can put in.

Stacy:

The other thing you can do, even as an individual business owner or if you have one or two employees, is to actually open up a 401k. So you can do that as well. The only challenge is that there are some administrative costs that you have to have, and so if you're just you, I would say CEP IRA, individual. But if you start to have employees, then you're probably gonna be in need to look at a 401k. But I'm glad you brought that up, emma, because a lot of people feel like, because I'm not W2 employee working for a corporation, that I don't have options, and what I have to say is that we and I'm looking at you and I and all other self-employed owner or business owners we actually have better options because we can significantly fund more money into those retirement plans than even that normal W2 wage earner does.

Emma:

That's right, very good, perfect, perfect. Okay, go ahead. Here's to college funds.

Stacy:

Yeah. So college funds, you're not gonna put it underneath your pillow. You're definitely not gonna put it into that 401k either. You're gonna open up a 529 plan and the reason why you wanna do that is because all those earnings grow tax-free. So if you start that plan out when your child is very young and it doubles, triples, quadruples, grows over time, whatever you take out is tax-free, as long as it's for bona fide education expenses such as tuition, living expenses, books, room board, computers. Also, there are many states New York doesn't allow this, but many states also will allow you to use money from that to pay for K through 12 private school tuition. So that's another option and you can put in up to $17,000 a year. The exemption limit this year for gifts to a minor or to anyone is $17,000. But there is a supercharge strategy where you can actually put five years worth of contributions in and based on $17,000, if you were to superfund it for five years, you could actually put $85,000 in this year.

Emma:

Wow. So if you want to take advantage of, like, a tax break this year, there you go. That's a great tip.

Stacy:

Yes, and you do save on taxes. So not all states, but most states allow you to deduct $10,000 of that contribution off of your state tax return. So it's a smart thing to do. But just remember, when money goes in, it really needs to stay there, because if you pull it out for things that are not qualified expenses, you have to pay all the taxes on the earnings, and then there's also a pretty stiff penalty, right.

Emma:

So you don't want to use that as a tactic to save taxes or something else, and then planning on taking it out later. You're just going to shoot yourself on the foot.

Stacy:

That has to be a real savings, yeah. And then the final account is just a brokerage taxable account, and I have one of those too, and I have used that account to save for a second home. So we opened one up, we started saving and saving and saving into that account, knowing that it was something that was going to be sooner. It was invested a little bit more conservatively, which we'll talk about investments next but then we were able to then use that to buy our dream vacation home, and so it's for things that typically you need sooner, or maybe you've totally maxed out the amount that you can put into your retirement plan at work and you are a unbelievable superhero saver and want to save elsewhere as well.

Emma:

Lovely, lovely. I love how you said all that, good. Okay, so now we're going into different kinds of investments. So those are the basics of an emergency fund and some basic savings, and once you got that covered now you're pretty much ready to go into the bigger league of in the investment world outside of. Like you max out your basics, you all set up your kind of security establish. Now you will have fun and grow your wealth yeah exactly and for a lot of people.

Stacy:

One of the things I'm hearing Emma is like why don't I just put my money in that money market account, fdic insured, getting 5% plus? Well, it's not a bad thing. But I have to say two things. Number one while I'm so excited about that 5% plus return, it's not going to be like that forever. As soon as interest rates start to come down, we're going to see those rates come down to you and historically we've seen returns of like 1%, maybe 2% if we're lucky. So you know, really creating a robust portfolio is very important and, case in point, while a money market has done well with 5%, the S&P 500, and I don't know how the market actually closed today, because we're doing this interview while it's closing, but the S&P 500 is up around 20% this year. So far, so right. You know, 5% is great, but I mean, I think we can all agree that 20% is better.

Stacy:

So what portfolio is right for you? And it really depends on what your risk tolerance is, which is the fancy way of saying when you open your statement and you see red, you see a loss. How do you react to that? Do you move to the side where I'm going to sell it all and go to cash, or do you take that loss in stride and say, well, you know what, I'm a long-term investor and so figuring out what that mixture of stocks and bonds is to? Number one, make sure that you feel comfortable and safe, no matter what's happening to your portfolio. But the second piece is also making sure that you're filling in that gap.

Stacy:

For everyone listening, you need to be planning for your portfolio to be growing out to age 95. One woman I talked to today her grandfather just turned 100, her grandmother 99. For her we need to plan out to 100 at least. And so what does your portfolio need to do? What types of return does it need to post to make to make sure that you're able to get through all of those retirement years affording your expenses?

Stacy:

The vast majority of our clients choose a portfolio that's called a moderate aggressive, like 70% stocks, 30% bonds, and what ends up happening is they get closer to retirement age, that 70% in stocks fully goes down to 60% and then goes down maybe further to 50%. But I find and this might shock a few people that even our clients who are in their 80s many of them still have like 50% in stock because we're planning for another 15, even 20 years, and we can use their bonds to produce income and, when appropriate, sell an investment and reinvest the pieces and give all those wonderful gains that we've had, although that earning, to the client. So this is what I think is the most exciting part of really making your money work for you not only in good times, but also making sure that it's invested in a way that will be there in bad times too.

Emma:

I love that. Yes, very good. It's interesting because, yes, we're living so much longer nowadays that a third of our life is post retirement, potentially if we're living over 90. So that's a long time without having potentially regular income coming in right If we don't have this plan in place. Very good.

Stacy:

And those are all really important things. Of course there's going to be social security, but for the vast majority of people, the portion of the social security that covers their ongoing expenses it's pretty small, and so just relying on social security is not something that I would recommend. So, again, making sure that your investments are working for you and that they're growing over time, and at least growing by at least a few percentage points above inflation, is really important.

Emma:

Very nice, that's a great tip. So how do partners get on the same page about all these things?

Stacy:

So one of the things I would say because you're going to see, too, that, in addition to maybe having differences about what makes you feel comfortable, about how much you're spending or how much you need to save, most partners have different thresholds about what makes them feel comfortable with investing. So this is something to think about that it may be that one person's investment accounts are invested a little bit more aggressively and the other person's investment accounts are invested maybe a little bit more conservatively, because retirement accounts are going to have to be separate. Anyway, you're each going to have a retirement account in your own name. So that's a wonderful opportunity where your investment style, your investment mojo whatever that is for you you can have reflected in that account. And then the accounts that are joint accounts or brokerage accounts you can talk about together of what that would look like.

Stacy:

But I would say one of the biggest pieces that I said was that four letter word of talk.

Stacy:

Talk is really important, because coming together and being on the same page and making sure that you both feel comfortable and safe is absolutely imperative, especially when it comes to investing, because a lot of I will tell you the number of divorces I'm working on right now I'm working on about 30 divorces and not. In fact, we have a lot of happily married couples. In fact, a lot of people hire us because we know what makes happily married couples, but a good number there has been money conflict because one of the partners invested extremely aggressively in one stock, or maybe two stocks and lost the money. And talking about conflicts in marriage, you add that on top and you have a pot ready to boil over. And so again, making sure that you're on the same page and that you're both in the know and you both understand, and that you both feel like you have power, that you have say that you're being recognized and you're being really part of that decision is important. That is so huge.

Emma:

So I would say that it starts with how we started this interview even right so having a joint vision like what do we want life to look like? What are we planning for, what kind of lifestyle, for how long? What kind of life do we want to have? I find that partners have different ideas of what they want out of life period. So one is saving for this lavish life, the other one is saving to give it all away or whatever. So very different goals too. So what are we working towards? How do we come up with something that's joined? It could be a combination of those things, or whatever people come up with, but then also, okay, what are the mechanisms for making that happen? How do we go on the same page? So we both have a say, so we're both informed, so we work together, so we're both in the now and the have, we both have access by all of these different things. So, at the end of the day, nobody's surprised and the house doesn't burn down.

Stacy:

What we found the secret was of for me in particular, because I'm not the spender what needed to happen for me to feel safe and I know that it feels odd to say feeling safe about money but my grandmother was in an abusive marriage and she ended up passing away because of this abuse. It became so violent and for her she shared before she died that she felt financially trapped. So for me, even though I'm married to what I think is the best man in the world, I have to have money in my name. I need to have a certain amount and I need to know that we're on track financially, that we're going to be okay, that we can retire, that we've got extra cash in an emergency fund. I think, because of the way I was raised, it's maybe PTSD, I'm not sure, but it scarred me. It scarred me so much that I became a financial advisor.

Stacy:

And as long as we are on track for that savings goal each year, as long as we're hitting that, as long as our emergency fund stays where it needs to be, is what then allows us to say, okay, we really don't need those new shoes, but if you want them, okay, because we're on track, we've hit our savings goal already this year and I know we're going to be okay. So, again, kind of recognizing what each person needs and making sure that that happens. You don't have to have that ongoing conversation because that the spending conversation is not good. I know it's tiring, it could be very tiring and that's often where we end up fighting, right, that's where a lot of us in couples end up fighting because we don't value what this other person has purchased and we maybe don't understand it or vice versa. And so, even before that, just figure out what needs to happen to make you each feel like you're safe and you're secure.

Emma:

Very nice. I love that. Would you recommend having separate accounts to maybe help deal with some of that, because that could have come off your own account. Then it's not skin off your back.

Stacy:

Yeah, no, I know actually, and that's what I would say I have my own accounts. Not only do I have my own retirement account, I have a separate account too, and we also have a joint account. But it's very healthy. It's interesting because when you talk to financial experts, some people will say, have all your money joint, and some people will say, have all your money separate. And then there's people like me where I like to find the best of both worlds and I find that having separate accounts for your own expenses, maybe super going and spending it on X or Y, that's great, but then we have a joint account that we both have full access to for ongoing expenses, housing things like that, so that for us and for the vast majority of the clients that we work with is really fantastic.

Stacy:

The challenge is that I've seen a few couples where the earnings in the couple is lopsided, and so what's going into the joint account might be very little. Nothing is going into the non-earning spouses account and the rest is going into the earning spouses account in just their name. That's a problem, that's a problem, and so that's something that you can work through together. Maybe talk to a therapist. You can figure out what again is going to allow you each to feel comfortable and safe? But I will tell you that those marriages where one person is literally keeping all the money in their name and then just siphoning little tiny bits into the joint account and not letting someone else have money in their name, those are the people who will be eventually knocking on my door because there's going to be a divorce. Absolutely, that's what's going to happen.

Emma:

It doesn't sound very balanced. The person who's making all the money might disagree with this.

Stacy:

They will disagree and often it's because they're paying the bills, they're controlling the money. But I will tell you that again if you are in any way excluding your spouse, your partner, from knowledge about the finances, from access to the money and the finances, that is what's called financial abuse. Wow, and that's a pretty serious word. But that's what that is, and I will tell you relationships like my grandmother's, where there was financial abuse. They don't last long or if they do last, they're unhappy, like hers.

Emma:

Wow, thank you so much for that. That's huge, something that I help couples with and of course, I do not claim to be a financial advisor whatsoever, but just dealing with a relationship aspect of everything that you just said. We create systems for contributing to the joint account together. If the other partner is an earner, then the money needs to be joined and then you keep some, or there's a nice significant amount that covers everything. It's not dribbled, that covers everything and the other partner has access to, so it's not like the one person that's making the money keeping it all under wraps.

Emma:

Most of our clients both partners earn, and so they both contribute by percentages to their joint account and they both have also their own separate money so they could spend this discretionary spend however they like and they're running into problems with I got an extra latte, or I got an extra haircut or whatever, exactly, yeah. So then there is the joint part. There, there is transparency there, there's collaboration, there, there is focus, there's a plan, the strategy of these things are in place, plus independence, plus empowerment and all the things. So then we bypass all of that conflict that could potentially come in and prevent abuse. Yep, exactly.

Stacy:

Exactly.

Emma:

Super powerful.

Stacy:

I do find that couples who talk together stay together, couples that are working together towards their financial goals really live longer happier, healthier, more financially sound marriages as well. And what I would just say is that you have grace with each other and have patience with each other. Marriage is wonderful, but you're marrying someone because usually they're different than you. It'd be kind of boring to marry the same person and so just realizing that that they see the world, they see money, they see investing savings all of these things through different eyes, and I would just say get curious about that. Put judgment aside and get curious because I know for me, I've learned so much from my husband and thank God I married him because I've had some amazing life experiences, because I'm his partner and he's pushed me to do things that like I'm doing indoor skydiving now, Emma, like crazy.

Stacy:

I would have never done that. I would have said it's too expensive. I'm not doing indoor skydiving but for him also, he's so appreciative because we have a beautifully stocked 401k and he's going to be able to potentially retire sooner than he could have had he not married me. So you know, everybody brings their unique gifts and so just getting curious about again how they see the world, because it's through that curiosity you learn, and then you can start to see the world through those glasses that they have and understand it and then work together. And I think that's what's so exciting about relationships of just constantly working together, learning.

Emma:

And we did marry our partner because they are so opposite us usually, or so different, and there was excitement and curiosity and all this awesomeness that comes from like, oh, that's different, that's cool. And then we want to change them and make them us, you know, like no, let's continue to be in awe of the differences and use them and make more. My stuff, your stuff, makes it bigger, more beautiful in that relationship.

Stacy:

Yeah, and I would just say the final thing is that you don't have to do this on your own, emma. I know that you help a lot of couples through some of these really tough topics and you know. So making sure that you have your team I know I personally couldn't do it on my own right, and also I will tell you that finding the right financial advisor that can talk about this I mean, I don't think most advisors talk about money and marriage in maybe the same way I do, and that's actually, I think, something that we need to do. That's something that more financial advisors need to be more in touch with, in tune, to help couples come to the same page. And you know you're there from the communication point of view to really help couples be on the same page, and for us, we can actually show what that page looks like, with all the different scenarios that they might be interested in learning about, so that they can have really good conversations. So finding a good team, I think, is really important too.

Emma:

Very good and for the listeners. I highly recommend Stacey. She knows what she's talking about. She has an amazing business, an amazing firm. Her people take care of their people, so they do a really good job over there. Highly recommend her if you're looking for a planner to add to your team of supports and service providers. Stacey, it's been an absolute pleasure. I know you have some gifts for us. Do you want to describe them?

Stacy:

Quickly? We sure do. We have some great gifts, so we have some great books for everyone, and I will do the drop the links in the show notes. One is a fantastic link to a budgeting spreadsheet. Another is also for people who are thinking about, or unfortunately going through, a separation or a divorce, a link to a book to be able to have and, if you know of any widows, anyone who is on their own. I've also written a book to help during that first year and beyond to be able to get your finances in order. Some really good tools that you can have to just learn and get yourself in a good financial space.

Emma:

Beautiful. So we'll definitely add those links. And we didn't talk about Savvy Lady, any shout outs about that.

Stacy:

Yeah, so Savvy Ladies. I shared a little bit about my grandmother, who is so special to me. The saddest her story was and is. It helped fuel some really good in the world? So I ended up creating a charity in her memory called Savvy Ladies, and we work with over 10,000 women each year giving them financial education through hundreds of different courses. They're all free.

Stacy:

You go to SavvyLadies. org and Savvy is with two Vs, because it's very, very good, savvyladies. org. And not only will you see hundreds of different courses that you can take and educational programs, every topic about finance and more. We also have a helpline, and the helpline is the only helpline free of charge where you can go to our website. We also have an app. We match you with a certified financial planner that has an expertise in the area that you're asking about and you get to work with them free of charge for an hour.

Stacy:

It's pretty amazing, I'll tell you, emma, and it's a great way where you can bounce ideas off of someone, whether it's investing savings, social security, emergency fund, credit card debt, even negotiating a job, and understanding what those benefits are and how much those benefits really translate to in dollar terms. So just a fantastic tool. And again, there's no income check. Any woman who has a question just ask and reach out. We want to help you and that's what it's all about. So it's a 501c3. My grandma is smiling down and she, I know, will be happy happy, all of the people listening today. Hopefully you can check out SavvyLadies and make her memory live on by helping yourself and by helping other people.

Emma:

So beautiful. You are magnificent, thank you. You bring so much light into the world. I really appreciate you. You're beautiful. Thank you, Emma.

Stacy:

And I'm so happy to be here. Thank you.

Emma:

My pleasure, my joy, having you here today. Thank you so much for sharing your wisdom and your time with us and for the listeners. I will see you at the next one. Bye-bye.

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Emma K Viglucci, LMFT

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