Successful Relationship with Emma

Relationship Experiential Awareness for Repairing, Connecting and Relating Beyond Words (Ep. 25)

• Emma Viglucci • Episode 25

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Even though words are important sometimes they are overrated… Hence, we say things like, A picture is worth a thousand words… And in this case, there is so much more communication going on between partners than what words can say… 

We know we communicate in a lot of different ways, including non-verbal communication and body language… But what if I told you that those are also very basic. We connect at other levels that we usually don’t take into consideration… Like through being interconnected and using our intuition and knowing… 

And, like using our felt body, our sensing abilities, to feel into our selves, our partner and our relationship… There is a ton of information here that we usually use automatically. But what if we were to tap into this intentionally and leverage it for a more authentic, deeper, and meaningful connection? 

In this episode, I have a lovely and inspiring conversation with Carmela Bennett, a somatic psychotherapist, who shares about what somatic and experiential relating is and the benefits of relating from a sensing place, how to use it to manage and repair conflict, how it’s healing and repatterning, how it enhances interactions with deeper emotional and physical intimacy, and how to use it for enriching and upleveling our relationship. 

We discuss over a dozen practices partners can use immediately to elevate their relating… 

Hope you enjoy it! 

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🌟ABOUT OUR GUEST:

Carmela Bennett has been a psychotherapist for the past 25 years and maintained a private practice for individuals, couples, and families in NYC since 2016. She has a Doctorate in Leadership, a Masters in Marriage in Family Counseling, Somatic Experiencing training and holds a CASAC addiction specialist certification. She blends years of training and experience with holistic, somatic, experiential, and psychodynamic modalities and specializes in working with relationships, addiction, anxiety disorders, PTSD and developmental trauma treatment using somatic experiencing. Her lifelong participation in the expressive arts, especially dance and movement, inspires integrating creativity, imagination, and intuition into all aspects of her life and work. She considers our basic human need for connection and individual purpose a fundamental resource for meaningful change. You can find her at www.carmelabennett.com.

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*Visit the Episode’s Page for the Video, other resources AND to get our FREE Relationship Enrichment Mini Course!  

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DISCLAIMER: This content is meant to support your Journey and not as a replacement for professional assistance. Additionally, the ideas and resources provides by our guests are their ideas and recommendations alone and not necessarily a reflection of the host’s.



Emma Viglucci:

Hello, lovelies, welcome to another episode. I am so excited for today's topic and guest. I speak with Carmela Bennett, a psychotherapist specializing in trauma, and we talk about somatic repair, which has two uses. One is to repair when you're either misaligned or arguing, or having a fight or disagreeing with your partner and you just can't seem to get on the same page and you keep missing each other. And so the approach helps you tune back in, reconnect, realign so that you can get past the moment and there's a repair moment in that. It's healing, it gets you back on the same page and it helps you feel more connected. There is repair in that, there is healing in that. And then, secondly, you don't necessarily need to be having a tough moment, but you could use this in other ways, as practices to enrich your relationship. We give a lot of suggestions and different ideas for how to do that, your relationship. We give a lot of suggestions and different ideas for how to do that so you can increase your connection, deepen your connection, create more meaningful interactions and just deepen your intimacy all around with your partner. Stay tuned, you're in for a treat. Let me read you her bio and then we'll say hello to Carmela.

Emma Viglucci:

Carmela Bennett has been a psychotherapist for the past 25 years and maintained a private practice for individuals, couples and families in New York City since 2016. She has a doctorate in leadership, a master's in marriage and family counseling, somatic experiencing training and holds a CASAC addiction specialist certification. She blends years of training and experience with holistic, somatic, experiential and psychodynamic modalities and specializes in working with relationships, addictions, anxiety disorders, ptsd and developmental trauma treatment using somatic experiencing. Her lifelong participation in expressive arts, especially dance and movement, inspires integrating creativity, imagination. Dance and movement inspires integrating creativity, imagination and intuition into all aspects of her life and work. Carmela also integrates her knowledge and experience in human development and potential to coach and consult internationally with executives, organizations and universities, seeking to build strategic leadership and create innovative and mindful solutions to global complex workplace initiatives. She considers our basic human need for connection and individual purpose a fundamental resource for meaningful change. Without further ado, let's say hello to Carmela. Hello Carmela, how are you?

Carmela Bennett:

today I'm fine, great, actually, I'm looking forward to this conversation.

Emma Viglucci:

So am I. This is a beautiful topic and I love the information that you share with me when we first spoke, and so I think that the audience is going to really benefit from your insights and your wisdom and your practice. Like what we're going to offer today is going to be really beautiful, so I'm really looking forward to it. And we're going to be talking about somatic repair, and so what the heck is that? What is somatic repair and who needs to use it and for what reasons?

Carmela Bennett:

So somatic repair is a kind of that's an umbrella term in a way, right, and it incorporates a lot of concepts but also actual practices, right? So people who do embodied work, like a therapist, or they have some kind of body work or somatic therapy, are involved in somatic repair, right. So somatic repair can be inner, like interpersonal, right. So we repair from the inside out, right, and that doesn't just take place in our head. Right, and we kind of know this, you know, and practitioners know it right, we all know it, and even more and more clients, our patients, sort of know it right, but they also experience it. So, framing it as I think somatic repair probably sounds a little bit different, but it's addressing things that have already been talked about and probably already practiced some. So what it means in terms of inner, on the inside right, is the healing that we are engaged in, when we're really feeling into the intense emotions that can come up when we're healing from a trauma or even just working with anxiety or depression. So it's that inner work and it's really connecting with the sensations and what's happening in the body, not just talking about the interpretation of it, the story of it. Right, that's the inner that we're talking about, and then interpersonal, when we're working with relationships, which is what you work with, right, yeah, we're really um, educating, number one educating and also having our clients experience what they're, what's already actually happening between them.

Carmela Bennett:

Right, because what happens in a relationship is so much about sensing. Right, we focus on the words and, like, as, as therapists, sometimes we focus on oh, let's learn communication skills super important, but was it even without the words? And when I ask this question to patients, they say, oh, of course. I say, well, you sense your partner, right, you know before they're going to say something, or you, right, or you sense, like, when they say something, but they actually mean something else. You sense when they're hurt, you sense when they're angry. You're sensing all this stuff right between your partner, without the words, right, so the repair, what we can help, um, our clients work with in a session, right, is what are you sensing right here, now, what's in this space, here that's kind of being sensed, but not maybe um expressed, and um, if it's hurt feelings or if it's anger, all these things like that we work with with a as therapists and as as the as the patient right it's like let's work with that and let's work with like, hey, what is?

Carmela Bennett:

and also there's a third party, right? What are we sensing, right? Right, because we are, and so we have the advantage of being that observer self that also has a felt body, like okay, you're telling me you feel really great about this. I don't feel that at all.

Emma Viglucci:

Right, you know that's so interesting, carmela. I love that you mentioned that. You added that in there, because I mean, we know just, we're using our own bodies in session, right, like if we're good therapists and we could sense and know and read with our own bodies. It's not just the words that the clients are saying, but we're using all of ourselves in the interactions. So sometimes it looks like we're just hanging out in therapy but we're doing so much more than just chatting, right, and very, very, very interesting that you mentioned that. So our bodies are informing us too of what's happening in the session and between the partners, so good.

Carmela Bennett:

Yeah, so, as we know, as therapists work with couples, right, and repair also happens between the therapist and client, Right, that's part of the process, right? So when someone can tolerate, like identify and tolerate what's happening, I'm so angry at you for saying that, or I'm so sad, or I feel so ashamed, or whatever, it is right, yeah, and as a therapist, we can actually that's here now and there's a there's a felt sense of every emotion. Yeah, so the repair is we can feel it and then we can actually look. It's a beautiful thing actually when, when I have two, a couple, turn towards each other or like hey, feel into the space between you, when you feel in the space, and some in the beginning they'll say like I don't know, like what's this space, but it makes sense really quickly. Yeah, yes, yes, very good.

Emma Viglucci:

so I love how you're defining this and you're also, but it makes sense really quickly. Yeah, yes, yes, very good. So I love how you're defining this and you're also describing it and you're also giving examples. So somatic means in the body right and the sensing, and it's in what we're experiencing and repair. So we're not just talking with words or apologizing or just giving lip service. We are using our bodies and moving the feelings and expressing the feelings and using the feelings. So all of that is being brought to the space and to the now moment, so it could be used to deepen the connection. Right? That's part of the definition. Do you want to say more about that?

Carmela Bennett:

Do you want to say more about that? Yeah, so we're sensory beings, right, we're wired to sense, even before we can speak, right. So, as infants, right, we have no language, but we know, we know right, just because we're sensing, right, we can see sort of right. But what we're sensing into opposite or with, or even behind, like, we can sense. You don't have to see the person, right, what we're sensing is what's very real, like, and that's creates that's the relationship.

Carmela Bennett:

Right, I'm sad and hurt, um, you're turning away from me, or I sense that you're turning away from me. Maybe you're not physically doing it right, but you've actually done it right. People, they disconnect, and so we're wired to seek the connection and the disconnection, which is what we're working with, or with couples who are in therapy, is hey, how does that happen? What happens within the person, within the person which is also then creating the relationship right in the moment, over and over and over and over right, and so drawing attention to, hey, as I'm listening, as like a partner's listening, what's coming up in you on the sensory level. That's like I feel. But somebody might say, oh, I hear your words, like, I hear this. You, yeah, really didn't like it that I said that what I really feel is a deep sadness this is very different.

Emma Viglucci:

Oh my gosh, is it different. You know, and it's interesting when partners say I feel that you suck, that that's not a feeling, right, but I love the way that you position the other way right. I hear the things that you're saying and this is what I'm feeling.

Carmela Bennett:

So good, that's just completely, completely whole different worlds in terms of an interaction between partners between partners, because that's oftentimes that, most of the time I guess maybe I'll say oftentimes right Unknown to the person who's sensing it and also the person that's receiving it Right. So there's all this stuff going on under there. All this stuff is going on under there and that's what you, you know, if people are therapists, are familiar with emotionally, efs, right, it's, that's a lot of what is getting tapped into right, what's the emotion that's coming up, not just, hey, let's talk, let's do communication skills practice. So the attachment right, you can sense, we can really work with the attachment right, we can sense, we can really work with the attachment. If there's an attachment wound which a lot of times there is, you know, and or how do we repair that Like, so couples you have the opportunity to help repair, you know, their partner's attachment wound if they're, you know, wounding and oftentimes they come to us by the time they come to us.

Carmela Bennett:

It's actually damaging, right. It's got, it's been tweaking it, it's been triggering it more and more, each one, right. So those attachment wounds have kind of gotten like you know the scabs have been picked. You know the scabs have been picked.

Emma Viglucci:

Yes, I love that.

Carmela Bennett:

Yeah, and so the opportunity is to help people become aware of that. On a sensory level, I'm so distraught and I'm telling you you suck. And I'm so angry at you because I'm so hurt and I feel disconnected from you and all I want is to be with you.

Emma Viglucci:

Yep, yeah, and so it's so beautiful once they learn to get in touch with that and speak that way, right, which is so far from when they first come in and after, and sometimes it takes even a while, right, because just the noise is so inviting and so enticing the blaming, the pointing fingers, the criticism, the control, like all the things that we do, right, and the partners do. And once people start being more vulnerable, like you're suggesting, and they're inviting that vulnerability from their partner and that authenticity and that deeper share, right, like everything just calms down. It's like the nervous system is like oh, I'm okay, right, like you're not coming after me, right yes, and so well.

Carmela Bennett:

We also, we kind of know, as therapists right that tolerating that, even tolerating connection can be very difficult, yes, especially if there's an attachment wound right or, you know, trauma or whatever. Even tolerating that, that's right, very difficult. So like we help them manage it in the moment in a session, just feel that, what do you notice? Feel that, and so people get partners the opportunity to experience it.

Emma Viglucci:

That's what connection feels like. Yes, wow, this is so lovely to put words to the work like this right into into so, so for, for the audience and those are whoring couples therapy. They could identify what's going on in our minds, right and, as we're observing it and as we're guiding it, the possibilities that are there if they allow themselves to just show up in the moment and kind of put the weapons down, you know, and it's much easier than to get to this deeper level that everybody's seeking. This is what they're coming in for, right, and sometimes they think that by shoving their information at their partner's throat that they're going to get this. That's going to do just the opposite, right.

Carmela Bennett:

So good. Yeah, it's a really good point. I mean, often the intentions don't match the outcome, right. Here's what I really meant and I can't believe you took it that way. Yeah, very good.

Emma Viglucci:

So, carmela, what would you say are the benefits and the importance of this kind of work, like, what does it mean to repair this deeper level and the overall benefits of this for the relationship and for the connection?

Carmela Bennett:

Well, I think I spoke to it a bit. Right that there's the opportunity at the individual level, right For each individual that's showing up in the relationship, right? So we're working both, we're working on both, right, and so we were kind of familiar with the fact I did with the client this morning. Right that the chart of the relationship there's you, there's me, and then there's us. Yes, yes, the Venn's diagram yep, there's you, there's me, and then there's us. Yes, yes, the Venn diagram yep, there's us in the middle. Yes, so what's the sense of? Like? That's an actual visual. There's a space there. What's the space feel like? What's it feel like to be when we're in that space?

Carmela Bennett:

And there's lots of things right. It's not just one thing right. But I guess the real beauty of it is to get underneath the words and for people to sense the connection. Oh, I just felt you disconnect from me, didn't? Oh Right, the connection. Oh, I just felt you disconnect from me, didn't? Oh right, you know, people can say it, but when we have guide, you know each partner to like, share with your partner, how, what, the feeling of that? That's really there. You can't really argue it the way that some couples will, right, so the benefits are myriad. Right, there's the opportunity for people to learn a different language. Actually, you know, to learn a different language between their partner, to have a different sensory experience individually and together, and to not rely on so much language.

Carmela Bennett:

There's a um, a therapist out there. I really respect his work, steven stosny. I don't know if you ever heard of him. He does a lot of work with trauma, but also um, a highly reactive couples, and he has a book, actually how to heal your marriage without talking about it. That's right, that's right, you know. Right, yes, yes, yes, or how to, whatever something your marriage affects, your marriage, about talking about it, right, right, we know from, uh, not just him talking to it, but that gender is different. There's lots of differences in the way that women are kind of tuned into a relationship and men are tuned into it, right.

Carmela Bennett:

So another benefit is that, like, the opposite partner gets a sense of like, oh right, here's what's different. You know, men are, oh, somewhat more likely to distance. Perhaps again, I'm not generalizing, but you know, they've learned into um, defending, armoring up, and they're um, they're not aware of it, they're, but this their partner is I can't even reach you, that's right. You know what are you talking about? I'm sitting right here, right, but I can, right, and vice versa, right From the other can be like this is too much. Yeah, oh, my gosh, you are. This is like I could feel so much coming from you.

Emma Viglucci:

It's too much, that's right, yeah, feels so much coming from you. It's too much, that's right, yeah, and I think that potentially that's part of the reason why they are more up or shut down or distanced, because they're not used that much feelings and so they get flooded. And if the woman or the more feminine partner doesn't have a good boundary around containing emotions or expressing them appropriately, so they're not like beating on their partner with it, right, and instead of doing a tsunami on them with their feelings, then they can't tolerate it. So of course, they're not going to be like right, or kind of shut down, withdraw a distance. Look away what, however they do it in the moment. They might even actually leave the room, right, if it's too much, like if they're not in therapy. Actually, even if they're in therapy when you're in Zoom, they might still do that.

Emma Viglucci:

So very interesting, for sure, for sure, okay. So then what we're saying is that the benefit of this kind of work, of the sensing and the getting in touch with the feelings and this vulnerability and sharing it and sensing what's in the space and discussing it or bringing it forward and bringing light to all this stuff, is to deepen the connection. That's kind of like the goal, the idea to repair the connection when people are feeling disconnected, to bring that connection back online, to repair that bond, that kind of like they put a knife to it if they've been doing funny business right, so they kind of bring it back together yeah, and you know what's the phrase?

Carmela Bennett:

um, words are cheap, right, and being flippant, right, but we again I, I said it before but we're just censoring, like, we're just constantly sensing, like, are you with me or are you not Right? Right, and so to be able, and so for people, again, for people individually, to like, oh, get, I have a better understanding of this. Is what's going on with me, and I'm not even aware of it, right, I'm not even aware that I'm sending that out, correct, right, but they can get feedback, right. So the the opportunity for feedback is it's expanded. There's different feedback that you can get from a therapist, you know, different feedback that you can get from you know your partner.

Emma Viglucci:

Yeah, beautiful you. It's interesting because usually the partners are more concerned about what they're getting from their partner, right? I can't feel you. Where are you? You're giving me too much, but they're not paying attention to what they're doing, if they're shutting down, withdrawing or not giving, or what are they giving right. So it's very easy to focus on the other, as opposed to what we're doing yes, plus to what we're doing yes.

Carmela Bennett:

And so there's that. That's the beautiful art of it, right that we're that. You know, as therapists, we're working with these two nervous systems in our own at the same time.

Emma Viglucci:

Yeah, and that's why a lot of therapists who don't work with couples find couples therapy very challenging. Because that's a lot. We do a lot of work.

Carmela Bennett:

It's a lot you do like we do a lot of work. It's a lot you do like, isn't that? That's primarily what you do, right? Yeah, yep, well, and give me a lot of credit because it's it's uh, it's challenging, it's beautiful stuff and, um, it's satisfying, but it is a lot, yeah, yeah. So I guess, as I say that I'm guessing that you probably do some of this intuitively anyway, totally for sure.

Emma Viglucci:

So I have some knowledge of these things from my own trainings and different things, obviously, but definitely just the self of the therapist and just using my intuition and my body, my sensing, just all my gifts, if you may. So maybe not so in a structure you know like, not this specific therapy with this particular structure, but definitely it's part of the dynamics of what's going on, right, and just tuning in and helping them regulate themselves by using my own self-regulation, right, yeah, so, yeah, all the things, of course.

Carmela Bennett:

If it's happening in the session, then if we're the repair right, it can be like it can be a moment right. It could be 10 minutes right Of whatever's happening with a couple, but even it's if it's like a moment, then they've experienced something new for sure, so gorgeous too, like and however.

Emma Viglucci:

I mean, right now we're using the sensing part, but any repair has has that feeling to it, right, but then like this deeper piece that we're offering today, and so any repair feels like right, and when we add this layer it's even like a deeper, even a deeper peace and calm and like knowing and connection. So that's just definitely part of the goal of offering and to experience, okay. So then that whole piece was so beautiful and I really appreciate all the information that you've shared so far. The opportunity that partners have to go to this deeper experience with their partner if they want to, whether they're in therapy or not. It's just so gorgeous. They could deepen their connection.

Emma Viglucci:

For everybody who's so hungry for connection and to deepen that connection with their partner and to feel like they know each other at a deeper level. So this is one of the ways and to really build that connection in the moment and just feel just better in that attachment, right. So all that good stuff. And so if people wanted to do this by themselves, with their partner, what might they? How might they set this up for themselves, like outside of therapy session or if they're not in therapy, like I was saying how that? How might they give this a try if they want to get these benefits for themselves?

Carmela Bennett:

um, so what I would suggest is to do some individual and something together, right? So there's so much out there now on like guided meditation that actually has helps people tap into their body. Yes, hey, there's like you can find that all over the place Like, oh, you know, just a five minute, feel into yourself, feel into it, so people can get a little more skill, so anything that like is guiding them to like feel themselves.

Emma Viglucci:

What's going on?

Carmela Bennett:

Yep, okay, very good. Yeah, and then you get a little bit and they can do that together. Sometimes people do meditation together. Yes, that'd be a nice thing, right.

Emma Viglucci:

What was that like?

Carmela Bennett:

What was it like for you? Right, I don't know. I didn't feel anything. You know where I felt, right, this is really. But whatever it is, it's like ah, they're sharing it, they're showing the experience yes, so beautiful and then it's together with their partner.

Carmela Bennett:

There's some simple stuff that may not be easy. It's really fairly simple, but may not be easy, right, right, but even something like get grounded. You know something done, a little bit grounding, like it's fairly simple, but it may not be easy, right, right, but even something like get grounded. You know something done, a little bit grounding, like you know, feeling solid and then facing your partner and just gazing into your partner's eyes and then notice what happens, hmm, right, and so you can like, that is like, again, it's simple, but not always easy. Oh, what starts to come up? Oh, I want to, I don't, I want to look away, right, or like oh, I really am I.

Carmela Bennett:

Your eyes look so tender, or you look sad or you look whatever, right, so eye gaze is a really simple practice that people I think couples therapists do anyway, right, it's sort of helping people pay attention to something else, in other words, pay attention to what's coming up. Like as I look into your eyes. Oh my gosh, I feel so warm. You know, I can feel this love coming from you. Or I feel cold, or I feel a distance, right, whatever, like your eyes are cold or whatever, right.

Carmela Bennett:

But if you practice that what I've had people do that and practice it and they actually get better at it, right? And and it becomes like these, a moment, a real connected moment, real moment of connection, you know. So that's that's one. That's a simple one. The other is, uh, another one that's fairly simple and not so threatening is to have people go back to back, like sit and go and sit back to back, so they're like healing into their partner, right? What do you feel? Anything, right? Oh, I feel it feels like a brick wall, like, like, like a brick wall, right? Oh my gosh, I really sensed you there for me, right?

Emma Viglucci:

That's really beautiful.

Carmela Bennett:

Right Since. So if the goal was, I want to sense connection from you, right? Oh, could you soften a little bit, could you soften it? And then, then, oh, that feels so great.

Carmela Bennett:

oh, you know, yes I love it yeah and and so people and it's kind of eye-opening for people to understand that how wasn't that hard? I it wasn't as threatening, it wasn't as I thought it was going to be, just all kinds of little things like work with giving and receiving right. So that's also what we're working with giving and receiving. Yes, how you receive what I'm offering you, you know, and we receive it on a sensory level.

Emma Viglucci:

Beautiful. Yes, you know, it's so interesting because these exercises work when partners are not fighting, when they're fighting or they're not in good terms. It's so interesting because these exercises work when partners are not fighting. When they're fighting or they're not in good terms, it's not going to be as easy, right, Because I mean I hear it when people are challenged, like I see hatred coming at me, right, and so it's going to be hard to receive that hatred. I mean, of course it would help also soothe the whole thing, right, but it would take a lot more guts to be able to go into this vulnerable place when they're fighting or when they're angry or when they're hurt. Any thoughts about that? Do you agree? What do you think or what can we offer about that?

Carmela Bennett:

That's the reason to do it right. We do it because it's hard, because it's, but there's, that's the value of doing it when you're not fighting, Right, right, you do when you're not fighting. And then when you're fighting, but at the same time, I think there's the opportunity if a therapist is present and a therapist can facilitate that, right. So I just saw you like really stiffen up, you know, like if you just let yourself like, like feeling your feet right, and then soften your eyes and can you, can you, you, can you hear what's being said, so we're offering a chance to um, the opportunity to to interrupt that right, so we're interrupting. That's building a new pattern, right. So when we interrupt, like, that conflict in a in a sensory way, it's like because we want to bring it down a little bit, right, yep, not trying to eliminate it necessarily Like, okay, don't ever fight, right, but how do you? How do you fight and stay connected at the same time?

Emma Viglucci:

disagree, you don't necessarily even need to fight, right? So how can you have disagreements without them escalating and without disrupting the connection, right? Of course I? I love how you said all of that. So of course they want to first practice and play with this when they're in good terms and to add to their connection moment into the connection habits.

Emma Viglucci:

I use those terms in our work and they could just enrich their practices with things like this, and we're going to talk more about that as we go. I think that's one of the last things that we're going to touch on, so we could deepen this even further. But then if they practice that and if they exercise that muscle, they have a more accessible. When they are in conflict, when they are arguing, when they are disagreeing, when they are fighting, they could ask each other or invite each other to come into this place if they're not in a therapy room, to come to this place. And okay, can we do this sensory thing so that we could calm this thing down and get on the same page and repair and regroup and reconnect, so good. So it could be used as an enrichment activity, but also as a repair activity, because in that repair there is healing, right. So that's kind of also the bottom line.

Carmela Bennett:

Yeah, well, sometimes I say it this way, like we're going to do anger differently, right, you still be angry. We're going to do it differently. Can you do it differently? Can you be angry and stay connected, even right here and now? Cause, hey, people are angry about things, so you cheated on me or you did this to me or you did it right, and so we're there for that. As therapists, we have to be there for that. We're not trying to like, just do all the like, the good stuff, right, right. But then there's like, and those feelings are very intense, right, this, the um, what's coming towards you is being, is pretty intense. Can you stay in yourself, right, but also, can you stay connected in conflict? How do you stay connected in conflict? Right?

Emma Viglucci:

Right, which I, I, I would assume that I don't know that people haven't necessarily expressed this with language, but I would assume that people believe that they can stay connected if they're angry at each other. Right, that's part of the the, the underlying thing that they bring to to to a situation Like I can't be nice to you if you're being mean to me, right, like you know, like I'm angry, I'm not going to be nice to you. They're different things, right, and so then I'm going to reinforce you being mean to me if I'm nice back to you. Like weird things that people come up with with logic and all ego and patterns. I love that you brought up the patterns to this.

Emma Viglucci:

Absolutely, we want to change those patterns. Right, if we learn how to sit in anger, we could feel it under all of our feelings. No, feelings are not good or bad. There are feelings that they bring information and if we're able to sit with them and we use it, right, and then we we use all of the feelings and then then, with that, if we could hang in there and then we could still address the situation or whatever, it is bonus yeah, yeah, but you know, and we can even use, um, I guess what I is also possible, which is like so informative and so illuminating sometimes, to couples right, like using posture, right you?

Carmela Bennett:

what do you sense when your partner's like this Right, right, there's, you're not going to get in right, I can't get in, I can't get in Right. Or you can use posture. You're like, okay, turn away from each other. Where's the connection? There is none. So what's your goal here? Right, can stay that way, right, so there's another way that you know we can use.

Emma Viglucci:

People like to to actually sense in the moment here's what you're actually doing right, using the body language appropriately, to, to enrich that connection and to promote that connection yeah, well, to give people um an understanding, understanding that they feel, instead of us telling them.

Emma Viglucci:

Lovely. So what about touch and using the space in between them, like, how can they bring that to that practice, like anything to offer about that, as long as it feels safe? And how do we create the safety? How do we bring that into that moment to help make it even better?

Carmela Bennett:

I mean, you're not a therapist. You're not a therapist.

Emma Viglucci:

There's no therapist. This is for the audience, for them to do it by themselves. So if they are sitting together and they're like, oh, let's play with this concept, or oh honey, I know, I learned something, let me show you this, and they are practicing, they're playing with this idea and they're deepening their connection, or they're learning how to use sensory repair or somatic repair better, and now maybe they want to take it to the next level and they want to add a little bit of touch if it feels safe. So how do we create safety around that, to add touch and to learn more about how to use this space between them.

Carmela Bennett:

Yeah. So I think your word safety is important, right, so ask permission, you know, especially if there's been a lot of conflict, yes, don't feel safe, they may have to. Um, and the other. I think the other key words are are to slow down, go slow, right, because, um, as we kind of know from experience, like, even like when somebody runs up to you and hugs you, like right, right, you can do a little bit much, so go slow, right.

Carmela Bennett:

You know Gottman, he famously said, like a long time ago, like just touch your partner on the shoulder as you're talking to them, right, as you're speaking, like using, touch your partner, touch your partner on their shoulder as you're talking to them, right, as you're speaking, like using it, using touch Right. And so there's another connection there and we sense it, our system senses it and processes it. At the same, you know, in a different way than just if I hear you talking. So it could be something like we're watching TV, right, watching TV, and you know like, hey, if you kind of, if you just, instead of sitting opposite each other, right, or just you know, sit next to each other and like just sense to what you sensed or and what naturally wants to happen will then happen, right, oh, I'm sitting close to you. I want to put my, my arm on your, you know, my hand on your shoulder or hand on your on your knee or whatever.

Carmela Bennett:

Something's small. So it can be something small like that, right, I can be feeling more like what I talked about earlier, you know, or like putting your hands like like palms together, like palm, and like just feeling into like, hey, what's this distance, right? What distance feels good? Oh, this feels good.

Emma Viglucci:

I love that, yes.

Emma Viglucci:

So the other one was more organic, like just being together in regular life, right, just kind of being in the space together or even as they're practicing some of these skills, as opposed to sitting on opposite sides of the couch, just coming a little closer, lovely, and what by what you just offered then, as as a more intentional practice.

Emma Viglucci:

Oh, let's play with the space between us, what you know how much close and sort distance feels right in the using the hands, like touching the hands, opposite hands to each other, and kind of gauging the space, so pretty. I love that because I mean you can feel the boundaries right, you can feel the space, you can feel the energy, if you all kinds of things you know, like okay, this is too close, this is too far, right, and so, like that, you find that middle ground that feels good to both of us. Yeah, so good. And one person might feel better with the hands closer to their own chest and the other person might feel better with their hands closer to the other person's chest also, or maybe they move back and forth, whatever, but, yes, what a beautiful way of gauging that and then maybe adding words to it too, or defining or expressing or sharing what it feels like or like. What else would you do with that?

Carmela Bennett:

yeah. So again, it's like getting the, just the sensory experience, like oh, this feels really good, this feels really nice, right, just feeling it. And I think you said earlier you know people who, when working with um sexual issues right. So people who've been very either been estranged for a long time, they've been alienated and they're haven't been sexual or there's been an issue right. So again, sort of like to go slow right, to kind of use touch in a very slow way and it can be something like giving, like starting with, like a very, uh, safe massage or something like that.

Emma Viglucci:

That's actually getting people connected on a sensory level without let's sit and talk about it right at a sensory level without let's sit and talk about it, right, which is just a different experience, right, which could be very awkward. People have a hard time talking about sex things but then easing into being intimate by being with each other. They might not necessarily need the words, but just creating that physical safety and the sensory experience of the felt experience of being together without being all intimate and all naked and all of the things too quick, right, just kind of ease into like, oh, this is safe. Right, just kind of teaching the body in the nervous system it's okay to this feels okay and maybe then what's the next thing that feels okay, and just keep progressing slowly yeah, and so we're also teaching on the individual level.

Carmela Bennett:

How do you create a presence that feels safe? You know, oh, I feel you feel safe, I can come towards you, right? Wow, can you?

Emma Viglucci:

say more about that. That's beautiful. Well, because our presence is everything right. We're sensed like those, like we've been saying, like, like. Do I sense that?

Carmela Bennett:

you're safe. Wow, can you say more about that? That's beautiful. Well, because our presence is everything. Right, we're sensed like. We've been saying, like, do I sense that you're safe? Right, and just like open or loving, caring, right, it's very hard to be sexually intimate if you sense your partner is not being safe, right, that can come from both sides, right. So somebody who has trauma in their background can like, be things don't feel safe ever, right, don't feel safe, right. And so for their partner to be, create that presence that feels safe, that's repair. That's also a way to repair, right, because you're giving your partner an experience of a safe connection that they may never have had. Okay, so, on the individual level, the more we create that like sense of like oh, I'm here for you, I'm safe, you can come in, okay, then somebody has a traumatized nervous system and they need to get this right.

Emma Viglucci:

Yeah, if I have a traumatized nervous system or a history of trauma and I I'm looking for connection. Or I might not even be looking for connection if I'm very traumatized but my partner wants connection or intimacy and they're coming right. So how do they come so that I could receive? If I'm traumatized, it's gonna be very hard for me to receive or to open up into a let in right. So then the partner who's coming, they need to show up with that warmth in that, that sense of safety, as opposed to like, oh, come on, right, that's not gonna. I mean, that doesn't the practical, what it might look like, and so gentle, right and warm and tender and loving and caring and accepting and all of the beautiful, safe ways, nurturing so that the traumatized nervous system could be at ease and receive more easy.

Carmela Bennett:

Yeah, in those situations, a lot of times less is more right. Yeah, totally, just go easy.

Emma Viglucci:

Yeah, you know I'm here and um, next time I'm here we do something else, or but yeah, so it's the interplay and um for the person who is traumatized, who's looking for that connection, regardless of who are taking the risk, right, right, who are being courageous and who are approaching their partner. For the receiving partner to know that they're taking a risk and to continue to create that safety. And if the partner who's traumatized is approaching their partner and their partner's not, they're not getting it right that they could guide them or show them. I don't know if you agree with this and like they could request, what might that look like so they feel safe? What do you think about that?

Carmela Bennett:

Well, I think what you just said, is really important, right, that you ask, they make a request. Yeah, they establish the boundaries, the boundaries feel safe. So it's that you're giving and receiving. Is it okay if I do this? Right, I'll just go so. So it builds trust. When you're building trust, so I'm going slow is super important.

Carmela Bennett:

Um, asking permission is vitally important, right, and then, uh, stopping if there's no, this is too much like. So there's, because somebody and we know this too traumatized people with trauma, right, sometimes their boundaries are very porous, right, they have none, right, they let too much in, right, and then. But then they feel alone, right, or right, right, and so it's always a parallel process of, like, building up an inner boundary for the person who's had trauma. If somebody has trauma, like, I guess I want to say too that it's really important for that person to be getting their, to be getting work, their individual work yeah, I think couples work without that is, yeah, I think couples work without that. It's harder, yeah, but it's also a little it's just like can not be safe, right, you're not. There's a lot of work, individual work, right, they're really going to need to get sturdy about what, to what they're asking for when they say that's too much. So they're going to have to be informing their partner.

Carmela Bennett:

Here's what I need, here's why, right, and would you be? Are you willing to do that? Because you got to get buy-in from the other partner? Right, because without buy-in, you just say, well, I'm going to like, I'm just going to try this thing. I learned it. Right, other person's person is coolest. Yeah, there's a lot, there's more um chance that it may disconnect because there hasn't been any bound, like any agreement, right, yeah, so I'd like to try. Here's what I learned. Would you be willing to do that? Right, okay, yeah, I could do that. Could you just be like sort of present for me, whatever it is. So the person who's like more aware, you're going to have to ask. They're going to have to be aware enough to ask, and if they're getting a no from the person or like I don't know, they, they have to.

Emma Viglucci:

They may have to say well, I'm not sure if this is going to work. Well, so I would like to offer that. The reason why I'm going here is because I, with clients who are either single or who dating, or with partners who are really not into self-help, personal awareness, personal development, couples therapy like none of this therapy for themselves, right? So it doesn't mean that the relationship is doomed. It doesn't mean that you can't be intimate, right, but okay. So then, what, right? So then, what I would like to offer those people is not to feel hopeless like, okay, oh, shoot, my partner's not interested at all, it's not safe for me ever. What do I forget it then? Right, Like I would hate for that to be the takeaway.

Emma Viglucci:

So so I think that what we're saying is that they would have to kind of show their partner what they're looking for, see if they're willing to try it, and it doesn't have to be so clinical the partner might not receive clinical right.

Emma Viglucci:

So it could be very simple and very layman's terms. Simple as something like, in very layman's terms, simple as something like oh, can we just make love very slowly today, Right? And if I, if I, if I get like all weird on you, just give me a chance to regroup or maybe we could pause, Would that be okay? Like very simple stuff. It doesn't have to be like I'm traumatized and therefore blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Right, it doesn't have to be intense, it doesn't have to be scary for the other partner, the other partner who's not interested. They can't receive that kind of stuff, and partners then have a hard time getting their needs met because they can't ask, right. And so I want the audience to know that if that's you, that you can't ask in a way that your partner can't give to you, I think what you just said is beautiful.

Carmela Bennett:

You know, can we just go slow? And if somebody doesn't, you know, is not going to reveal, doesn't want to reveal the trauma, I don't know. You know, there's many different scenarios that we could be talking about here, but being able to take care of yourself, right. So our responsibility is to take care of ourself, yes, right, and then we can ask for what we need. And no, it's not hopeless at all, because it's very empowering to be able to do that right.

Emma Viglucci:

What might be some things that the partner in that position might want to ask for. The partner who, who's seemingly resistant, not into self-development, not aware, not in couples therapy, not in their own therapy, like the most densest of person? Let's make the worst case scenario here, just so that we know that it could still work right. What might be some things that I mean I already gave kind of an example. Anything else that you want to add to that Like? What might those requests look like? So are you talking about?

Carmela Bennett:

somebody who's really working with the trauma, or just anybody.

Emma Viglucci:

I would say that most people have trauma, but maybe some more than others, right? So, regardless of the level of trauma. So somebody who's feeling like I need to go a little easy and I want to reconnect with my partner, and how do I do it in a way that serves me and my partner's a little resistant, what's the best way to approach their partner?

Carmela Bennett:

Well, I think you touched into it, we sort of have touched into it. Some of it can be like just a touch you can sense into your partner, you know, like you can sense, hey, are you receptive? Is this person receptive right now, being aware of timing, you know timing, yes, right, right. So if somebody's coming home and they're just really stressed out or whatever it's that probably maybe it's not the very best time, right, really right. Or you know, again, I get it there's like some awareness that has to happen on the part of the person who's kind of making the overture, yeah, right. And if they, if they kind of are aware that this other person may not be receptive, it's super important for them to just be able to step back. Okay, all right, maybe next time, or okay, then let's just snuggle Right, or whatever it is. We, you know, it doesn't we, you know.

Carmela Bennett:

And so the, the awareness on your you're talking about somebody who's really kind of more aware than a partner I think, yes, yes, happens a lot. Right, exactly Right Is to kind of like hey, how do I, how do I make her, what's that? What am I asking for? And how do I take care of myself at the same time, right, so it doesn't have to be, you're right, it doesn't have to be. Well, you know, I've had trauma in my background, so like blah, blah, blah, right, but it's um making a simple request. You know, hey, can we just that happens all the time, right, can we just like struggle tonight? Right, that feels great. Okay, can you give me a little back massage? Oh, my gosh, that feels so good. You know the simple things, right? Yeah, I think again it goes back to going, going slow, because there's where awareness can happen. If people are speeding through it, it's like whoa, you're gonna lose connection with, like, what's going on with me.

Emma Viglucci:

Right, what a good observation. Yes, for those people who are anxious and who just want to go through the motions of things and just checklist, checklist things, right, and we do. For sex, let's make sex happen. Um, or however people approach their lives and their intimacy, it's okay to first be in your body, to have the awareness, to sense into the space between you, to sense into your partner. Does your partner feel open? Does your partner feel receptive? Does your partner feel available? And if they don't, is this the right timing? Or can you check to see if they will become available? Like all just basic things, right, not like just, and then everything flashes. Yeah, and then.

Carmela Bennett:

Then you know, because it'll people you'll know. On the other end of it right Was how was that? Like, did that feel? Did that feel good? Not really, you know, they may not say it, but Right.

Emma Viglucci:

So first of all, I mean people might reject the attention and the affection as at the first layer, right. So your partner might be not available period. And then, as you start getting more intimate, that it might just feel very mechanical or not in alignment or just not warm or right. So you know, if you're not, if you're not connected and if you're not in a good place, right in those situations, don't serve anybody right, it creates further, further rapture and further re-traumatist what's the word re-traumatizing situations. And so definitely use your judgment when you're approaching well, I think you're speaking to another point.

Carmela Bennett:

The other point is that a lot of these moments happen like outside the bedroom, right, they happen in everyday life. Yes, building in like those small moments, and that's why, like that the gotmans talk about, like they happen, building those patterns, right. And then so it isn't just all or nothing, like whoa, we've just been here and now we're like, okay, it's gonna right and um, but and I'm sort of speaking in the context of people who are maybe exploring or wanting to build a relationship, but not not like just hooking up- yeah yeah, so wanting to build a relationship, and then there's that like kind of going, going slow and building in a pattern of connection.

Carmela Bennett:

You know touch here and there. You know words touch us too, right, we have we can touch each other with words. You know, uh, you gosh, you look so pretty or you look whatever, or whatever it is you or that was so nice that you did this thing for me, or what a great dinner, or you know I really, you know, felt um, touched that you made dinner, took me out to dinner and went, you know, made an effort, something, anything like that. So, yeah, so we're using all different kinds of sensory modalities, right?

Emma Viglucci:

To build connection. Very good point, because sometimes when we start talking about sex, we automatically go to the intimate moment. We forget all of this stuff that happens before the actual physical moment. Intimate moment right, there's physical intimacy way before that and all the kinds of intimacy and connection that happens before you get to the bed, air quotes right before you get to the doing it, and so, yeah, everything that leads up. You're building that connection, you're building the safety, you're building all this stuff that's needed there. So then when you want to be physically intimate, the chances of it being good for both of you is much increased.

Carmela Bennett:

Yeah, Like what's that phrase? Like something is some of the best foreplay. Right Is mental right, that's right.

Emma Viglucci:

Yeah, that's right. And yeah, they also say that the biggest sex organ is the brain, or the sex, or the most important sex organ is the brain. Right, because, like it also, it all happens in our head. I actually say a lot that our relationship happens in our head. Yeah, yeah, we interpret everything how we experience everything, how we process it, what meaning we give it, right, and so then it translates in how we are experiencing yeah, there's always.

Carmela Bennett:

yes, there's always that, and sort of making sure that the story is actually connected to your felt experience is like what we're talking about, because they can be different.

Emma Viglucci:

Totally, but so right, exactly. So I use it to explain like you're making up all this stuff in your head, right? As opposed to actually feeling it and working it and being in it.

Carmela Bennett:

Yes.

Emma Viglucci:

And so when people struggle, it's all the limiting beliefs and all the meaning systems and disconnection and all that stuff that's happening and not being aligned and attuned right, and it's all just to show this noise.

Carmela Bennett:

Yeah.

Emma Viglucci:

And it's a bad relationship up there.

Carmela Bennett:

I love that. It's a great bad relationship up there. There's a great bad relationship up there and those stories, but they're all those are all defense strategies, right? I mean, this is what I say about you or me as a defense, like as a way to defend myself Right Against you, and I think that's the Protective mechanism.

Carmela Bennett:

Sure, yeah, that's the protective mechanism. Sure, yeah, so here's what I'm telling myself because, um, that's how I'm going to keep myself safe, or I'm going to keep you away, or I'm going to do whatever. But uh, there's where the like connecting that to what's actually happening makes it like it like you know, more substantial, or how they're not in alignment what you're telling yourself.

Carmela Bennett:

You know this person is safe and then your body's like no excellent right exactly so people who who are not, sometimes get into relationships that aren't working well right, or rid them. They're overriding what they're. What's happening, yes, no, it's okay. This is okay. You know right. The story is like what they're telling themselves that may not be the reality right.

Emma Viglucci:

They disconnected their body and their sensing and all their. Everything that they are experiencing is disconnected from how they're analyzing it and they're giving themselves some messages that is not in alignment with the full body experience, with their whole self experience. They're not for nothing. They're rubbing heads or they're butting heads or whatever.

Carmela Bennett:

Yeah, lovely.

Emma Viglucci:

Well, there's the story right, and we're more likely to tell a story that fits with our own right, our own perception or experience with our own patterns of how we have experienced the world so far and we make everything fit that pattern that we, the blueprint that we already have, and and we we find the data that validates what we are supposedly already know. I suppose we miss all the other good stuff. I suppose we've seen everything else also.

Carmela Bennett:

Yeah, yeah, and you know, like we're not, we're sort of like talking, I think, today about like relationships that are kind of within some type of norm. Right, they're not abusive, right, right, right, right.

Emma Viglucci:

And yeah, yes, thank you for highlighting that. Absolutely, that's right. So we're not talking about relationships who are, who are awesome, because this you do all this more intuitively and we're not talking about relationships who are, like, dangerous and abusive. We're talking about relationships who are like regular, everyday relationships, where the opponents are struggling a little bit, or who are struggling maybe a lot, that's probably more the case and so they're just not in sync. They're just not tuning in to themselves, into their bodies, into the other, like everything's just out of sync. And then that's where all the conflicts are happening, right, and all the struggles are coming from.

Emma Viglucci:

What about, as a kind of like a closing sentiment, if people were to say you know what, I'm going to invest in my relationship Turning point, I'm all in, let's see if we could turn this baby around, or let's make this baby better. So what might be some and again, people are not in therapy. Assuming that they're not in therapy, or even if they are in therapy, they could bring this to the therapy session as well. But assuming that they want to play with this on their own, what might be some practices that they might want to bring into their lifestyle to make some of these things happen, what would be some exercises or some things that they could try to deepen their connection. And also, if they are in therapy, you can still try it. It's not going to do, it's not going to harm your therapy. If you add this to your repertoire, you could bring it to your therapist if you're not already doing stuff like this, or you could still practice it on your own, even if you're in couples therapy.

Carmela Bennett:

So I think we touched on a lot of them today already, you know, in terms of becoming more aware of your own experience, and one way to do that is slowing down. How do you slow down? What do you become aware of? So there's all kinds of mind-body practices out there, right?

Emma Viglucci:

You start with yourself, very good.

Carmela Bennett:

Yes With yourself and you're like, here's what I'm more aware of, right, I'm more in tune with me, and then go from there, right. So if your partner wants to come and do it with you, that's fantastic. Before I I thought about this earlier. I want to say it. Another super I think what's super important is the, the power of play. Yes, for couples to play together, there's a whole like experience of that Like, how do we play together, like experimenting with, like it's getting playful and that's bringing up this other part, and there's a whole like opening that happens when we play, right. So what are you doing to play together? You know, are you? You know, take, like, take some dance lessons or just go take a, you know, take a bike ride or something, get out in nature and really like put your phone away, yep, yep. So being playful together is just huge. There's a whole semantic side to that Right, having fun, right. What a concept.

Emma Viglucci:

Serious, yes, so good, right. So first. So let's kind of do a little outline for people Like just these are the takeaways, if you may. So I love what you just said, starting with. I start with yourself, because it all starts with our own internal experience. There's no relationship if you're not here, right, potentially so things for yourself.

Emma Viglucci:

How do you slow down? How do you have your own pleasure? How do you have your own joy? Right, how do you show up to your own body? Are you attuned to your own physical personal needs, Like all that kind of stuff first, then some of the things that we already mentioned throughout this conversation today the whole exploration with, like the hands, pushing the hands together in the space in between just to see how much space is comfortable, the back rubbing, the touching the shoulder or the leg when people are talking, the eye gaze so there's a few things that we already mentioned that would help get a sense of what's in the space between us and how do we give it words and how do we feel it and how do we share it with each other.

Emma Viglucci:

So those were all beautiful. And then you just added this last element of playing together and being playful and enjoying life together. And what might that look like? Exploring that you can get as crazy as you like or as simple as you like, just going for a walk after dinner every day or whatever, however, however often you like, but just activities that put you in each other's proximity right, that don't have devices or other things that come in and disrupt that that being together in the moment.

Carmela Bennett:

Simple things like learning something together. You're doing something together, there's a sensory experience of it. You're in the same space together.

Carmela Bennett:

I mean we can think of it like oh, we just went out and learned how to like I don't know make candles or something. But there's a commonality, like you just did something together, so it doesn't have to be so like serious, like sit down and talk about it and like everything, um, that's helpful too, right, but even like just the experience of doing something together and we minimize that, I think totally, we go off. I'm going to take this class or I'm going to do this thing. Right, doing it together is like you're sensing the same thing together. Right, it was like that was the, that was so fun. Or we took this art class where we, you know, but all those different senses are getting, are kind of firing in that moment, in these moments, right.

Emma Viglucci:

Yes, and I love that last bit of the language there, because Joe Dispenza, I think, says this fired together, wired together, right. So the same thing with a couple, like the mirror neurons, like you're feeling each other in those experiences and you're wiring together, you're building that connection, you're repatterning things. There's so much happening.

Carmela Bennett:

you're not just making candles.

Emma Viglucci:

You're doing so much more than that. Ah, so beautiful. I could totally sense that you're a wonderful therapist, not just from your words, but just your energy and just the quality and warmth that you bring into the conversation. So you're beautiful, thank you. Thank you for having me. Yeah, anything else that you bring into the conversation, so you're beautiful, thank you, thank you for having me. Yeah, anything else that you would like to throw out there for people who are experimenting with these ideas, who are not in therapy, who are not therapists, who are just listening to this, and that you might want to offer to them as the last takeaway? It doesn't have to be that hard right.

Carmela Bennett:

It doesn't have to be that hard right. It doesn't have to be that hard or complicated. There's, we hear so much and we get inundated with so much information and even this right can, like maybe, like you said, clinical, be like oh, it doesn't really have to be Right. And you know how do you feel into your partner, how do I feel into myself, and then I feel into my partner. I just want to reassure people. It's not that threatening either, Like it's not a threatening thing. Oh my gosh, I'm going to have to do this thing. We do a lot of it, like automatically, anyway, Beautiful. Yes, we can slow down and pay attention to it. Then you know, we can leverage it more.

Emma Viglucci:

Lovely, yes, exactly. Yeah, I would hang my hat on that. Okay, yes, right, because I love. I love that as a sentiment. As the last takeaway we make it too complicated. It doesn't have to be a list of things too structured, too set up too all of these things to remember. Right, if you just pay attention, you're automatically negotiating the space between you, you're automatically sensing what your partner's doing, so can you tune into that and leverage it? I love that word for this as well. Right, can you capitalize on that sense, play with it more? You could use what you're already doing and make it bigger, like, use it better. Yeah, just build from what you already have.

Carmela Bennett:

You know bigger. Like you said, better, yeah, just build from what you already have. You know there's like some fundamentals of human beings, right? Um, how can you help your partner feel the way you want to feel? Oh my gosh, yes, that's what it's all about you know so good. Here's what I want to feel. I'm going to help you feel that way.

Emma Viglucci:

Yes, so good, yes you know I'm going to offer one. Feel that way. Yes, so good. Yes, you know I'm going to offer one last thing to add to what you just said. That's so beautiful, and I'm going to use the word delight, right? How about we make it our business to delight our partner? Yeah, I think a lot of times we just so hang up on.

Emma Viglucci:

How can my partner delight me? Does my partner take care of my needs? What's my partner doing for me? What do I get Me, me, me, me, as opposed to? What can I offer to my partner? How do I make my partner feel good? I love what you just said the way I want to feel. I want to feel loved and cherished and honored and respected and treasured and whatever all the things connected. How can I help my partner feel those things too? If I want my partner to feel respected, I'm not gonna go beat on him. I'm not gonna be critical, demanding, controlling, whatever people do. You know all the things that we might do when we're trying to get our needs met. How do I go about that? The opposite way. So how do I want to feel? How can I go about it so that my partner could feel that way too. So it it's not. We don't do the opposite, we shoot ourselves in the foot. So how do we go about delighting our partner?

Carmela Bennett:

So good yeah, I like that word.

Emma Viglucci:

That's great, very good. Thank you so much for sharing your time and your wisdom and your knowledge and your skill and your gift with us today. I really appreciate you.

Carmela Bennett:

You're very welcome and I think anybody wants to talk to me and you have information, I'd be very happy to have a conversation, yeah.

Emma Viglucci:

Yes, All your information, your social media, your website everything's going to be in the show notes. So if anybody needs to reach out to you, connect with you and just work with this beautifulness that you are, people are welcome to that. So again, thank you so much for being here with me and to the audience until the next one. Bye.

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Emma K Viglucci, LMFT

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