Successful Relationship with Emma

Naturopathic and Spiritual Approach to Mental Health and Overall Wellbeing (Ep. 26)

• Emma Viglucci • Episode 26

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There are times in life when we feel amazing and there are times when we don’t feel so hot… This is especially true when we struggle with our mental health and have possibly even been diagnosed with a mental health disorder… 

Our relationship and our life can be a real struggle if we struggle with our own wellbeing… For it is difficult to show up with our best self if we are not feeling our best. Anxiety, depression, bipolar and other mood disorders and things like OCD, ADHD, BPD, PSTD, and other diagnoses can really make it challenging to manage ourselves and our lives and how we show up to interactions with our loved ones and others...  

But we don’t have to struggle, there are so many approaches and modalities we can utilize to have our own back in feeling optimally and creating our best self, best relationship, and best life! We don’t have to suffer. We don’t have to be on medications that might make things worse. We don’t have to feel limited and miss out on joy and happiness, deeply and meaningfully connecting with our partner, doing the most gorgeous parenting, having a successful career or business, and everything else our heart desires… 

In this episode, I have a super resourceful and inspiring conversation with Dr. Serena Goldstein, a Naturopathic Doctor, who is with us for a second time, and this time addressing mental health and overall wellbeing. We discuss a more natural, holistic and even spiritual approach to healing, wellness and feeling on top of the world. Addressing conditions is not just about taking medicines, but about how we do our life experience…  

We discuss a range of modalities and approaches to support your wellbeing. 

Hope you enjoy it!  


*Visit the Episode’s Page for the Video, related content, info about the guest, other resources AND to get our FREE Relationship Enrichment Mini Course!  


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DISCLAIMER: This content is meant to support your Journey and not as a replacement for professional assistance. Additionally, the ideas and resources provides by our guests are their ideas and recommendations alone and not necessarily a reflection of the host’s.



Emma Viglucci:

Hello, lovelies, and welcome to another episode. I am so excited and honored today to have another conversation with Dr Serena, an naturopathic doctor, and today we talk about the brain and mental health, and I love this conversation because we talk about this from the place of the body. All the body organs impact our mental health. It's not just about the brain, but there are different things that might be happening that either impact or mimic mental health conditions. So the conversation is so rich around that. What are the things that might be influencing our well-being and how we feel emotionally and mentally? We address all of the different ways that we could support how we're feeling. We give alternative suggestions on how to address different conditions and different needs so that we're not dependent on psychotropic medicines if we don't want to be, or just on supplements or feeling like we don't have options and that we might not be able to resolve this thing or we're stuck with this thing for life. So we actually have a wonderfully resourceful conversation in that there was a lot of different things that we could do to take care of ourselves and to enrich our experience and our journey so that we could feel well and resourced and have a lot of vitality and joy in our life. That's what we're here to do so that we could have the best relationship and best life that we want. Stay tuned, you're in for a treat. Let me read you her bio and then we'll say hello to Serena.

Emma Viglucci:

Dr Serena Goldstein is a naturopathic doctor who guides you to trust and understand what your body is telling you. She has diverse, deep and growing knowledge based around conventional medicine, natural modalities, energy medicine modalities and spirituality, where she seeks to find and address the root cause of symptoms with an individualized plan that also feels like relief. Dr Serena works with those experiencing weight gain, hormonal imbalance, poor sleep, stress, thyroid mood and gut health issues, who want to learn more about what their body is saying and needs. She has also shared her expertise on outlets such as MindBodyGreen, forbes and Shapecom. She has appeared on NYU Doctor Radio, cyrus XM, written multiple research articles on mind-body healing, presented at numerous conferences, and has served as an advisory board member for Natural Practitioner Magazine. You can find her at drserinagolsteincom. Hello and welcome, serena. I'm so happy to have you here again with us today. Yes.

Dr. Serena Goldstein:

I'm so happy to be here as well. Thank you again.

Emma Viglucci:

Let me tell you something. I had so much fun at the last conversation when we talked all hormonal things, and today we're going to talk about more of the brain side of things. And today we're going to talk about more of the brain side of things. I want to say less physical and more mental, more abstract, but I'm not sure if that's true.

Emma Viglucci:

So as the conversation unfolds we'll see how we place that right, because the body is a part of all of this, but I'm super psyched for this topic because the brain, the mind and all of the things that are going to come with this are my cup of tea, and so happy to delve into the nuances of how to work with the brain from a different angle. That is not psychotherapy, right? So, yay, definitely, yes, very good. So let me ask you the first thing then. So how do you find that mental health and mental health topics or issues that people might be experiencing show up in your practice? Because I don't know if people come to you for necessarily for mental health problems, right? But so you tell me, like, how does it show up for you? Like, is it a side thing that people come for it? Like, how does it play out?

Dr. Serena Goldstein:

So it tends to play out in a variety of ways. So a lot of the times yes, a lot of people know me for hormones, weight, the whole general endocrine system. However, a lot of the times I'll find, oh, but then I was also put on the psych med when I was a teenager, or oh, I just went through a really rough time and the doctor put me on fill in the blank with the prescription. Maybe they, or maybe they just feel like they haven't been themselves lately, which I will say too, can also be a sign of imbalanced hormones as well, because you know, as we may get into it, but hormones and neurotransmitters responsible for our mood, like dope or dopamine, like the reward hormone A lot of those do tend to mirror hormones themselves.

Dr. Serena Goldstein:

So it is interesting sometimes how the symptoms and how they present can actually look similar. Or it may be they just need some more motivation. It can literally just be more of you could the talk, therapy or lifestyle counseling. You could say they've tried everything. They have no idea what to do next. If anyone's ever heard of the fight, flight, freeze or fawn, they're probably somewhere along the mix of all of those when it comes to trying to figure out what next to do for health. So those, so that's where I tend to see whether it's again people wanting to get off site meds or maybe they were recommended when they're like, no, no, we want to go natural or it becomes more of a behavioral pattern piece of you know, I or I want to stop eating this food, or I want to quit this habit. I want to know my next level of health and it's just more of how do we work with that personality and how do we work with the person themselves.

Emma Viglucci:

Right. So I think I'm hearing that people might come in for a bunch of different things. There's not one way that they might come in, even though you do specialize, like you said, in weight loss or hormonal endocrine system things. But then you might have these other flavors show up in that you know I'm taking all this medicine also, or this other thing is playing out, or however the thing shows up, then you might see oh, there's something else going on that that impacts how you're feeling overall. That might show up as mental health conditions or symptoms, motivation or not feeling so hot or other things that just just all the systems are interacting with each other, and it shows up as a mental health thing in other areas of their life. So you do see, the diagnosis come up as well. Like, what kind of diagnosis have you seen that people mention that they have when they come to see you?

Dr. Serena Goldstein:

Yeah, I would say yeah. So I would say usually anxiety and depression would be the biggest, would be the or the predominant ones, right, and interestingly, or maybe you know, similarly they do tend to fall along the lines of imbalanced hormones. They're not sleeping properly, they're not eating the right foods, so while they may come in and check off certain boxes, at the same time I'm also looking past the diagnosis to say, but did something just happen in their life? Or how long have they been dealing with this? Are they on other medications that could be depleting certain vitamins and minerals? Because actually psych meds can do that? Yes, that could really be contributing to you know, again the person sitting in front of me. So how much of it is the actual diagnosis? Or because I know those diagnoses too are pretty broad, you know, but again we need to consider many other factors.

Emma Viglucci:

You know what's really funny, as we're having this conversation and as I'm thinking, I'm putting myself in your shoes when you're working with people, and also in people's shoes when they come in to see you. Like I'm trying to think about this from a lot of different angles year, like I'm trying to think about this from a lot of different angles, and what's coming to me is that's why I do this kind of interviews, because I know that when people come to see me, they have all of the symptoms that they might have the diagnosable things and then not diagnosable things or relational patterns and all the things that people have. You could trace it back to all this other stuff, too. That is why I have people like yourself on my podcast, right? Because when we watch the food and we watch the habits and we watch all the other things, all the other wellness aspects of our lives Huh, interesting and mental health gets better, right?

Dr. Serena Goldstein:

So this is exactly the reason why I have conversations like this. So a lot of times, for example, I will see in women a lot of anxiety around food, you know, especially when it comes to weight and hormones and their own changes, and they don't know what diet to do next, or wonder if this food is making them fat. Oh, but then they've tried intermittent fasting but that doesn't seem to work, and then they tried portioning their plate out. But they have this distinct memory from when they were a kid growing up, whether it was something their mother said or their father said, and somehow it just stuck. And now it's affecting them 30, 40 plus years later. So a lot of the times the questioning will go back to like, for example, what were you told about food when you were growing up? Because even that's changed a lot over the decades not even the food, just bodies.

Emma Viglucci:

How we're supposed to look like. Like your habits around food. How do you eat the food? Just bodies. How we're supposed to look like. Like your habits around food. How do you eat the food? Also now, from my therapist's head relationship around food how meals played out between with family members maybe that's when all the blow ups happen during dinner time or just whatever. All the things that show up in families, right? So so much, stayed up in that. Very good yeah.

Dr. Serena Goldstein:

Exactly, and then a lot of the time so when I'll recommend. So I always do a six day diet diary with people and so as much as as it is for me to see, okay, not just what are they eating, but what time are they eating, so I can really see the space, how much water are they drinking, bowel movements, sleep and all of that.

Dr. Serena Goldstein:

A lot of the times that helps so-called wake them up, times that, okay, now they're making change, that sometimes those old scripts come up and at the same time you know this is also what they were used to and you know it's all part of our nervous system that they haven't really thought about rewiring yet. So when they're coming and saying, okay, what can I do for hormones? I need to lose the weight, and then it's this black, white either, or it's like whoo, that's a lot of energy, so let's rein it in. So then again it kind of begs the question these are also generally, for the most part, I you know, generally healthy people of how long has this been going on? Let's see what else we can clear up. And that's, you know, so-called say, peel the layers off the onion when it comes to really getting into the core of the issue.

Emma Viglucci:

Yeah, very good. So a lot of that has to do with food, with, like the usual wellness things, right, food, water, exercise, sleep, the timing of things, about movement, like all the basics. Um, so how does mental health manifest in there, like the brain or the neurotransmitters, like what is the what's the what's the tie-in between the two there?

Dr. Serena Goldstein:

so what I'm also looking out for in their diet diary is did they fill everything out? Did they return it? Did they remember? It's the same thing with supplements. You know. There's a certain number of pills in the bottle or servings, whether it's powders or liquids. So that's the other thing. Are they also compliant? So a lot of the times, or really all of the time, it's not that I slap the patient's wrist for not taking it or not doing the diet diary, but I'm actually more curious as to what that barrier is.

Emma Viglucci:

Yes.

Dr. Serena Goldstein:

And so is it a motivation issue, Is it that we need to change things up? And maybe they couldn't express that properly, which again is going to go back to you know, is there any fear around this? What were they told as a kid period of time?

Dr. Serena Goldstein:

that I was working a lot with boundaries, with women, you know with themselves with food, relationships, with life, you know how to you know even create that ideal schedule, and sometimes that will come up. But but when we think of the motivation piece, you know that could also be if they're not getting the right nutrients, the right sleep and having manageable stress levels, are they really able to make all the neurotransmitters that they need, like the dopamine, the reward hormone, to feel good, the serotonin, our happy hormone, that long lasting hormone? Yeah, so these are kind of all the pieces. So again, if they're overstressed, overthinking, trying to throw spaghetti on the wall, hoping that it sticks, well, that stress is not only going to mess with their neurotransmitters but again it's going to mess with their hormones and that's going to affect their brain as well. So then, so then chances are they're coming and saying, oh yeah, well, I'm having some brain fog, right, and it started. Then you kind of see this whole picture start to complete and we say, okay, great, what's the?

Dr. Serena Goldstein:

you know what's the biggest support you need right now. And then that's where, yeah, we kind of go from there to say, okay, do we need more counseling and a little more hand-holding, or do we just really need to get those nutrients in?

Emma Viglucci:

So interesting that we could fix so many things with food. In and of itself, you know, that's just like such a concept I need to get a farmer in here or something so interesting, right. And also in the food I mean we might eat. But then I mean this is a complete tangent. We think we're eating healthy, but yet you know, a lot of times the quality of the food and some things might not be indicated for your specific body type or just your own body, and it's like, so you think you're doing the right thing and then yet you might be sabotaging some way or messing yourself up in some way, right?

Dr. Serena Goldstein:

Right, well, and the other piece to that is that it's not always we are what we eat, but we are what we absorb, so, so throw that into the mix. So then again, if they're stressed out and helmet and I would have a lot of women come in and I wouldn't like it wasn't SIBO or lactose intolerance, necessarily, or any of those even more functional related diagnosis it just they're just bloating constipation. It's like, well, are they chewing their food? How long has this been going on? So a lot of the times. We'd also need to work on the guts as well to make sure they were, you know, even getting the nutrients in properly so so much nuance here, right?

Emma Viglucci:

So then somebody comes in and they're sharing all these different things that make them feel unwell. They think they want to work on their hormones. You might recognize or they might share that they have, that they can. Psychotropics they might have some mental health stuff going on. They could all be related to each other, like they're all building, you know, like the whole wheel they are turning, like everything's connected, and so they might be on medicine. So what's your take on psychotropics and how does that play a role into the in this conversation? Like, how would you support somebody with that?

Dr. Serena Goldstein:

Of course. So I remember one of my colleagues. He said, wait until the patient says they'd like to get off or they'd like to start titrating down. Because, interestingly, I mean, there are times, you know, I've sometimes brought it up saying, hey, this is a possibility. But again, let me know when you're comfortable, make sure they have the right support.

Dr. Serena Goldstein:

But what I will say I have noticed is that there's also different reactions, because if they've been on, like for some people, if they've been on one for such a long time, they just may say to me no, forget it, work around it, right. Okay, we have lots of other things we could do. Others I've seen have tried to wean themselves off of it, which usually does not go very well, because a lot of the times we need to put stuff in place, optimize health, make sure they're doing all the lifestyle things, and then maybe we could start to touch the medications. And so from there that's where where can we get the right things in place? Again, make sure, especially, their vitamin d levels are optimized right, and you know so too. Maybe make sure it's the springtime a little warmer, have the weather be optimal as well, you know, should they decide to start coming off of it that's interesting.

Emma Viglucci:

That makes complete sense to time it to the seasons because, as we know, the winter is tougher on people with mental health things, and that's an interesting observation too. Maybe we start in the spring, right, and just make sure that your vitamin D is up to par, and just I'm sure there's other things as well to go along with that. So how do you optimize? So then, coming off the medicine, brain's not gonna go woohoo, like what could do it all right. It's like it's gonna have everything that it needs to function well without the medicine. Yeah, very good, that makes sense. So it sounds like your approach is to get people off at some point if they're open and willing. That that would be your preferred thing.

Dr. Serena Goldstein:

Exactly, and I know there's also a lot out there, you know, around the psychiatry, the psychiatry field, and I mean it's such a it is. You know it is pretty big. There's a lot of people who just don't believe in any psych meds at all, but I've also seen it make a difference in people. So it's almost like I I don't want to discount, you know just somewhere really can help. Um, on the other side of things, because we also have people across all spectrums of health, is it truly the right thing for everyone? It may not be, because, as we see with mental health, as I was saying, it could be hormones, it could just be maybe they're going through a rough patch and just or just need some human support type deal. So it could be.

Dr. Serena Goldstein:

I feel like it could be a whole different conversation, but a lot of the times, kind of like with birth control, for example, psych meds were only meant to be on for a short period of time, and I feel like that's what a lot of the times kind of like with birth control, for example, psych meds were only meant to be on for a short period of time, and I feel like that's what a lot of people miss. And then. So all of a sudden, they're now on the psych med longer and longer. It's not like they had their neurotransmitters tested. So I used to say too, psych meds were part guessing game as well.

Dr. Serena Goldstein:

So I used to say, too, psych meds were part guessing game as well. So, especially when you start combining them and you know, because then you're talking about not just a hormone in the person's body, but then these, a lot of these psych meds are acting on the receptors. So you're working on both ends, sort of, in this unknown. So, again, some are meant to be for a short period of time, but more often than not people are just kept on them for oh well, let's see what happens. And also, a lot of these medications deplete the same nutrients that we need to make the proper hormones and neurotransmitters and balance blood sugar, which could also be a huge piece when it comes to mental health too. So you know, again, working with all those different risk factors and having the knowledge of, yes, maybe some will be helpful, but it's not going to be a magic pill and you really need to make sure that you have a lifestyle and food, as we talked about, play and all these other factors in place.

Emma Viglucci:

Wow, yes, you know that's one of my biggest gripes with psychotropic meds and as a therapist, I say this cautiously that's not my number one go-to and I of course don't discourage people that people do what they, what they feel that is right for them and what they need. But they go see primary physicians or GYNs and they're prescribing them psychotropics. You know, like, and, like you said, like they haven't measured anything, like you're depressed here. Let me give you a prescription for this. Let me give you a prescription for the other thing.

Emma Viglucci:

And even psychiatrists are not really measuring what. And even psychiatrists are not really measuring what are they measuring? You know, like they're just prescribing and it's like, wow, do you even know what's going on, not in this body? And they have all the, all the. There's all the things going on, and like they might be counteracting with each other, depleting other parts of the body. That's not getting any support whatsoever. You're just making the problem worse in the body. That shows up in the, in the head and then everywhere else in life, right as as a result as well. Yeah, so this is one of my pet peeves, for sure.

Dr. Serena Goldstein:

So I'm glad that we're on the same page here.

Emma Viglucci:

I think yeah, so like nothing against them if it's done properly and that's what's needed. Like if people are really struggling. Of course that's your life's best, right? So let's get your head above water. Let's support you. But let's get your head above water, let's support you, but let's make sure that we do that properly so you're not shooting yourself on the foot at the end of the day. So you're making things worse at the end of the day, right?

Dr. Serena Goldstein:

Right, right. And the great thing is too, there's so much research and natural therapies out there, though I will caution there is a lot of herb-ph, some you know doing things that you know that people enjoy. I mean that's, that's also part of being human, it's part of functioning, it's. You know, we're in these bodies and have a lot of emotion, so it's so important to also have those outlets.

Emma Viglucci:

Absolutely. Have those outlets, absolutely. And those in the sleep, the sex, the play, the exercise all of those things also impact all the biochemistry. So you're creating your own things that you need by engaging in certain activities, right? So then, playing with that lifestyle, playing with the flow for the day, or the habits, or the things that, when you start making the tweaks the good nutrition, the supplements and some of these other lifestyle tweaks oh, now it's a whole wellness perspective. We're supporting all the different things. Now your body's functioning much better. You're actually getting more mileage out of your body, more like a better experience. Beautiful, that's what we're shooting for, okay. So, if you well, I guess you kind of been answering that as we're shooting for. Okay, so if you Well, I guess you kind of been answering that as we were going that that if people want to come off, it needs to be done intentionally, and so do you want to say more about that? Like, what would that?

Dr. Serena Goldstein:

look like if people are ready, yeah. So a lot of the times, you know, we'll talk about just what got them on in the first place, and I've heard reasons as simple as I don't know. I was going through some stuff as a teenager and this was the only solution and no one questioned it teenager and this was the only solution and no one questioned it. You know, yep, and I've also heard where, oh, maybe they've been through some really tough stuff and just still need a little bit of a buffer. So I've definitely heard the spectrum. You know why people have been on it and for how long. And then that's usually where I say great, but we're still going to take a look at your cortisol levels and your hormones.

Dr. Serena Goldstein:

Well, especially in this day and age, there's so many different ways that are yes, we can be well, but I also find you know what? Let's make sure we can rule out hormone imbalance as well. You know what? Let's make sure we can rule out hormone imbalance as well? Just because estrogen kind of acts like serotonin. But even men and women tend to have high estrogen, or what's called estrogen dominance. So, again, even though it could act like our happy hormone anytime, it's out of balance, it's not going to be acting so happy. Progesterone, which can act like gaba, which is our calming neurotransmitter, and progesterone being a calming hormone. Well, if we have high estrogen, a lot of the times it's we have low progesterone.

Dr. Serena Goldstein:

Um, this is our also too, you know, if our body's constantly in a fight or flight, you know, in this sped up response, the last thing we're going to be taking a look at is digestion and reproduction. So the good news is those are one of the first things that I start to look at to balance things out. So this is where I really like to get a sense of what are our cortisol levels are doing. So cortisol it helps wake us up in the morning drops throughout the day. Then melatonin, our most potent endogenous antioxidant, rises at night and then actually throughout the day. The melatonin, our most potent endogenous antioxidant, rises at night, and then actually throughout the night is when we make most of our hormones, including insulin, thyroid, estrogen, progesterone. So this is why sleep is so important. And then, so, if we get a sense of hey, what are your stress levels doing? Where are your hormones? We know how to target wellness a little bit, because it can be a little tricky to, you know, do neurotransmitter testing. You know they're already on certain medications.

Emma Viglucci:

Right.

Dr. Serena Goldstein:

So that's where I say, okay, let's take a look at what else is going on. We could certainly help clear up the gut a little bit Again, I do see a lot of gut stuff as well and then just start getting those nutrients in, where then, a lot of the times, I find they're clearer, they're listening to their body a little more. One of my favorite remedies, too, are different flower essences. Those are energy medicines, a homeopathic. There's hardly any substance in there and it's not going to interact with the psych meds, but it's a great tool that literally they can have, whether in their back pocket or in their bag, but they can either drop on their tongue or put in their water bottle, and these different flower essences, especially the Bach, remedies it. You know, they could have messages like feel secure and being more confident. Yeah, so these are the different ways that I'll say hey, you know what, we could still certainly work together, you know.

Dr. Serena Goldstein:

And then getting their labs optimized, so you know again, making sure their blood sugar is good, because that tends to be a pretty common issue, both in hormone imbalances and a lot of mental health. Yes, yeah, so. And then their thyroid is. That's huge too. It's like, are they really tired and not feeling themselves? Or did no one test their thyroid in how many years themselves? Or did no one test their thyroid in how many years? Right, which which helps rule our metabolism. So this is where you get a full thyroid panel, an iron panel taking a look at cholesterol, making sure everything's lining up, and your typical red and white blood cells and electrolytes, and then, of course, vitamin d, b12, so we could put some nutrients on there.

Dr. Serena Goldstein:

A lot of times I like to do homocysteines. It's also a good, both metabolic marker and I could see how they're metabolizing things as well. And so these are the different ways. That it doesn't mean, okay, you come into my office and there goes the medication, or it doesn't have to be that either or approach, but we're adding tools and we're adding knowledge and we're adding here's how your body is functioning right now. But here's the next steps to will to be a little better.

Emma Viglucci:

Right, that is so beautiful. So they might be on medicine. They might be thinking they might come to you because they're overweight, not feeling happy with their weight, or just how the belly pouch, or they can't they can't lose their weight, or just feeling female things, hormonal things, like they might have all the menopause symptoms, whatever things they might have going on Right, and then on the side like, oh yeah, then there's mental health symptoms going on as well and it's like, well, not for nothing, and like, if we rule it all down, all these organs are working together. So if one is off, a lot of these other things are going to be off. So it makes sense that the hormones are mimicking some of those neurotransmitters, that of course, it's going to make sense that you're going to have brain symptoms or mental health conditions and symptoms and it's going to drop in the gut too and then just physically in your sleep and your eating and your energy and your sex drive and your appetite, like you know the different things right.

Emma Viglucci:

So very interesting. Everything's interconnected. So it makes sense to look and test for all of those things and what's out of whack, what's deficient, address it, get it back online, get all the organs talking properly to each other and aligning and supporting each other, and then, voila, all of a sudden, all of the symptoms start going away and all of the different organs. That's what I'm hearing. Is that right?

Dr. Serena Goldstein:

correct. Yes, so you know we're taking a multi-pronged approach, you know, multi-system, looking at mind, body and, of course, the spirit are they, are they happy?

Dr. Serena Goldstein:

Are they doing what they want? You know, do they have healthy relationships, which is so important? Because a lot of the times I find, or what I'll see, is maybe, if one partner wants to get healthy, the other partner may may be kind of side eyeing them like what are you, you doing, or may find it, or may find it intimidating. So it's not uncommon for that to happen as well. So this is also, too, where I usually counsel people as far as, yeah, just just be mindful of who you hang out around, or maybe that you know that club or that outdoor activity with a group of people would actually be beneficial.

Emma Viglucci:

So, yeah, there's again a couple of different approaches. You know that's beautiful, adding that spiritual component to that, in that there is other things at play, not just this body or this organ, right, or just my thoughts and my emotions. There's other things also that impact again everything, and so the relationships, the interests, the activities, how we use our time and what things we participate in and who with. How are they impacting things too? I love what you said earlier, like what we absorb, right. So it's not just environmental taxing and in, you know, in the air or in the water or in the food like, or things that we just might absorb in different ways, that we don't even know that we're ingesting or taking in, but just energetically also.

Emma Viglucci:

I'm hearing you might be absorbing other things too, right. Just like when people have bad vibes, you know, like you don't feel so good after you hang out with them. There's a reason for that, so well, there's a lot of different reasons, but you know, for the sake of this conversation, for the most part, yeah, yeah. So what else about spirituality? So you mentioned a few things in terms of the activities and how to resource oneself, and just things that give us pleasure and that feel good. How else can the spirituality angle support the health and wellness journey, especially when it comes to mental health?

Dr. Serena Goldstein:

So I have found more meditative type activities. So meditation, yoga, is a big one. I find that such a great way of being aware of your breath and moving at the same time. And, if you didn't know, there's different types of yoga.

Emma Viglucci:

And.

Dr. Serena Goldstein:

I remember, you know, many years ago I was a competitive gymnast, so I was always on that go, go, go. It took me a lot of tries to really get into yoga. So if anyone can resonate, it's not just about oh, oh, just sit there and breathe and do a few movements, it's a thing.

Dr. Serena Goldstein:

it's a bit of a workout for the mind and for the body, might I just add, depends on which yes, especially if it's yeah, especially if it's the power vinyasa or even a more vinyasa type class 103 degrees, to add the heat to that one yep, done that too yes, yes right, and so I would say, yeah, the meditation, the vinyasa, those are, you know just, or yoga in general, those are great places to start and and the nice thing is now they're definitely more mainstream.

Dr. Serena Goldstein:

um, getting outside, putting your feet in the dirt, so called grounding grounding, so that's going to be so important to help change some of those electrons in our body. Just, you know again, help us stay grounded, stay more Zen, just getting outside, being in the natural sunlight, being out in nature.

Emma Viglucci:

You just journal.

Dr. Serena Goldstein:

it yeah, journaling, artwork, coloring, coloring. They now have adult coloring books yes, I know, and then? Yes, and the big question, which you may be familiar with too, is what did you like to do as a kid?

Emma Viglucci:

go back to that yep, very pretty. So these are things that could be added to the self-love practice or self-care practice, right? So it could be warping into the daily routine, into creating healthier wellness, self-love, connecting points during the day or habits during the day or habits. So if we take it to the next level here, would you add any metaphysical aspects to the spirituality angle? Like what else would you throw in here? Like what might impact mental health from that angle, if anything to your knowledge?

Dr. Serena Goldstein:

so one of the things I really like is sound healing.

Dr. Serena Goldstein:

We I mean we are vibrational beings at the end of the day, different bowls have different tunes or different healing properties, I should say. But yes, they have different tunes too, but they do, you know, hit different organs for the system as well. But I have found it just from some of just the research, the knowledge behind it, how they're made, and then usually during sound baths, the person has a chance to relax. So it's like, even if you can't always relax during the day, here's literally maybe a half hour or an hour you can carve out and just receive. So that's a big one too oh, I love that that's right.

Emma Viglucci:

So there's a lot of different modalities and where we could address the spiritual body of our body right. So we are addressing the physical, we are addressing the mental, we're addressing the emotional. That's why not address the spiritual too. Like that gets lost in translation a lot of the time and a lot of these practices support that. So I love that and the sound bath. That's terrific to add to this conversation. Any other ideas for more alternative wellness spiritual practices that could be added to this conversation that would help with the gut, the hormones, the brain, you know, the sex organs all of the organs.

Dr. Serena Goldstein:

Yeah, so you know again, usually, while I am very well-versed in supplements or yeah, and as far as like picking and choosing for the patient, so that's, you know, certainly my forte and whether I'll choose a flower essence for them or I'll say you know what, see what resonates with you, you know you can go on and you know, pick a few. There are times, again, depending on the patient, especially if they tend to be a little more sensitive, you know, just sensitive to people's energy, maybe being out there and need a little help grounding, I'll recommend certain crystals to people as well. I know the tiger's eye bracelet has become very popular. I've actually seen that on quite a number of people nowadays. So for anyone out there, tiger's eye really good for the solar plexus, which is the belly area, so it can help with some gut stuff and then confidence. So that's really what it's for as well, helping with a bit of that shield and that protection.

Emma Viglucci:

Very nice, you know. Since you brought up the chakras, can you just for people who might not be very familiar with this concept, like what are the chakras, what's the concept of the chakras, what are they and what organs might they be related to? So people know if like, oh, I have, I have this pain right here. What chakra is that? You know, and what can we? How can we address it from that angle as well?

Dr. Serena Goldstein:

Whatever, whatever group, of symptoms they might have, of course? Great question. So yeah, so the chakras are their energy centers that travel along the spine. So we have the root chakra, which circles in red, so it's sort of like a rainbow of colors that go from the base of the spine upwards. However, in the Indian tradition they also know that there's over a hundred of them, like we have many chakras throughout the body, through our hands, our feet and all of that. But for these purposes, what we need to know is so there's the root chakra that's at the very base of the spine, and this is our security, this is our grounding, the I am like you know, really just knowing who we are.

Dr. Serena Goldstein:

So that vibrates in red. Then shortly up around our reproductive organs, it radiates orange. So this is also water, so this is the emotional piece. So this is where dancing and movement and exercise can really come in, you know, especially for men and women too, and helping reclaim. They reclaim their power, reclaim their health and, you know, to help get back into their bodies A little bit above, kind of around the belly button, a little bit above that. So that's where I was talking about the solar plexus, which is yellow, which is a lot about confidence. So, if we think about it, and then what are we digesting? So we're also not. We're kind of out in the world like, oh my god, where do we go? Well, that's going to correlate to. Well, what's our gut doing? As well, our gut may be acting up. So we do tend to see some correlations between both the spiritual and the physical so before you keep going up the ladder there.

Emma Viglucci:

So with the root chakra, what would be some physical ailments that people might find so like? What conditions or what organs might be off or what pains might people have that might indicate that the root chakra, the energy there, might be a little out of whack or that they might need some support there emotionally. What might be some of the emotional things that might happen around that one?

Dr. Serena Goldstein:

Yeah, to happen around that one. Yeah, so physically, so it's low back pain, sciatica, so tends to be more. Yeah, literally like the lower issues, some of the nerves and everything is a lot of those nerve roots come out from the base of the spine. Um, emotionally they may just not feel great with where they are.

Emma Viglucci:

Right.

Dr. Serena Goldstein:

So, yeah, yeah, they may just feel a little little unbalanced, which again is then going to come into the sacral chakra of well then, how will they, oh my god, how are they going to achieve balance? Well, do they need to control everything? So then this is where we may see okay, this, as I was saying earlier, that black, white either, or, oh my god. Then they have all hands on deck and here, look at all these supplements I'm taking, and I say, great, you know, and actually my response too is because I I have had patients bring me many supplements and I say, great, let me take a look at the dose, we'll max out what you have have. Maybe put stuff on the back burner and create a plan. How does that sound? And then they could breathe again, yeah, and then yeah, and then that comes into the solar plexus of that.

Dr. Serena Goldstein:

Oh, who we are at confidence you know and how we feel about ourselves so.

Emma Viglucci:

So let's go back to the second one for a second. So with a sacral chakra. Um, that's so. The first one is a root one. It's called the number one chakra maybe the root chakra is red and it shows up with body lower body pains. And it shows up emotionally as maybe feeling insecure, not safe orrusting floor issues that's good right.

Emma Viglucci:

Pelvic floor issues very nice, um, and emotionally, like I said, all those things, um, for the sacral one it might show up controlling and over functioning and like that kind of stuff I'm hearing. And what kind of physical ailments might they have when that one is a little off?

Dr. Serena Goldstein:

hormonal imbalances. So this could be weight um on, you know, again like estrogen dominance, so, or like men losing their hair because that's also part of like their testosterone, maybe going into a more potent form of testosterone with women because, again like hormonal imbalances, they may have the mood changes and the weight gain and the missed periods or the too long periods or the prolonged ones. So a lot, a lot of the menstrual cycle and then libido is going to be in there as well.

Emma Viglucci:

Right, right, right, very good. I think that also creativity is part of this chakra, right? So maybe people feeling stuck or unmotivated Is that right? I'm not sure if I'm combining some of them.

Dr. Serena Goldstein:

Well, and what's interesting is that they all sort of work and can weave together in their own way, but it's true. I mean, one of the great ways to express, you know the sacral chakra to help heal it, is to move your hips, get going, get dancing.

Emma Viglucci:

Right so so that's kind of a solution to help with the sacral chakra. Any solutions for the root one?

Dr. Serena Goldstein:

Well, so the root one is getting out in nature getting your basics in.

Emma Viglucci:

Oh, I love it, okay.

Dr. Serena Goldstein:

Yeah, yeah.

Emma Viglucci:

Very cool. So I'm seeing a table now, right, so you, so you have the, you have the root that, you have the chakra, you have the emotional, you have the physical, you have the solution. Okay, Very nice. So so we have cover all those spaces for the root one. We cover all those spaces for the root one, we cover all those spaces for the sacral one. So keep going with the, with the solar plexus.

Dr. Serena Goldstein:

So the gut, uh, confidence and, to an extent, the adrenals as well. So the adrenals, which are the two little glands that sit on top of the kidneys, which are so important for our sex hormones, salt water balance and cortisol, as well as our adrenaline. So, yes, and it's interesting, because the adrenals can be, some say sacral, some say solar plexus.

Emma Viglucci:

Right, I was wondering. Interesting, yeah, yeah, yeah, cool. So those are the body parts that get affected by that chakra? What about emotionally, how that might show up?

Dr. Serena Goldstein:

Emotionally. Maybe you're a little too timid and it's one of those. I feel like usually the person knows when they're maybe not stepping into their full power and this could just be, you know, the person that wants to just stay in the back of an exercise class, for example, and hey, you know, maybe if they just really want to and that's their thing, like great, have at it. But where I'm sharing is more from the intention side. Or oh, can they really do this, can they? Or maybe there's a mountain they want to climb? Oh, do they have the strength to do that for?

Emma Viglucci:

example, like they're holding themselves back without kind of thing. Very good, yes, okay, lovely. So let's keep going at that final column. What's the next one?

Dr. Serena Goldstein:

of course, so the next one is the heart chakra. So this one is what's said to help connect the more spiritual, what's, you know, the chakras above the heart to the one, to the more physical which tends to be below the heart. So the heart, sort of that midpoint. And so the heart chakra, yes, it's about love, but it's also about love for oneself, it's relationships, it's literally being from the heart yeah, and so that one is colored green and so with, with when there is an issue with that one.

Emma Viglucci:

What kind of body symptoms or health issues? What might somebody have?

Dr. Serena Goldstein:

oh, people could be closed off. Heart disease issues, anything really under that spectrum, um, but this is, you know, it's funny. The first thing I thought of, too, was body language. You know, people start crossing their arms, leaning back. It's like they're literally trying to shield something right so protected, guarded, exactly cool.

Emma Viglucci:

Um. So those are the physical symptoms and what would be some solutions or suggestions for people who might find that that this one might be the one that's getting them a little bit, yeah well, interestingly, the heart chakra can also be represented by the color pink, so people can wear green shirts or even pink shirts that you know to help like as a color therapy to help heal the heart chakra.

Dr. Serena Goldstein:

Yeah, and animals are fantastic for this, because animals, you know they're unconditional love. So just yeah, being able to hug them you, you know, have them slobber all over you, you know, unless you get a really friendly cat to do that that's so interesting.

Emma Viglucci:

Can I just share a quick little, little tangent side note here? Um, I have an elderly dog and I could. This has been the theme of my life recently. So if anybody who's heard me talk about my dog, I apologize if I'm boring you to death. So he's 15 and a half and he's giving me a lot, a lot of work. So keep me up at night. During the day there are accidents, so it's just physically intensive work and then emotional and lack of sleep, all that thing.

Emma Viglucci:

So he's like really having an impact on me and this morning I had the awareness of. I was like I was cleaning him and whatever. And then I had this this he's rubbing against my leg, like, leaning his head against my leg, and I'm going to start crying and he's in and I felt from him the love and I was like you know, the more that I take care of this dog, the more that I love him, you know. So that came to me. That's interesting, that's coming up now.

Emma Viglucci:

So, totally, when you're you're aware of animals, you know that like I don't consider myself an animal person, but just taking care of him it just feels like it's opening up my heart more and more how much devotion I have for this animal, making sure that he's okay. You know as much of it's all he's taking on me. And it's like it's an interesting stretch for me, a growth place for me, right, that you could give this much and feel depleted in some ways because of how much is being given, but by the same token, I'm so replenished and nourished by the connection that it feels like the connection is growing more and more by the minute. It's such an interesting experience. I'm sure that animal lovers and people who have had a lot of pets could rest relate to this. Um, but just yeah, so we could use our animals for this particular piece of the work. Right, if I heart needs opening, get yourself a pet they will help you with that.

Dr. Serena Goldstein:

There you go.

Emma Viglucci:

Yep, exactly so good, so thank, thank you for that reminder, of course so good yes, beautiful. And so if we keep moving at that channel, and that's its final core, what's the next?

Dr. Serena Goldstein:

uh chakra next one is the throat chakra, so that's represented by the color blue and, interestingly, yes, it's about speaking, but it's also about listening as well right, we forget about that part of it yeah, what's the joke? We have two ears and one mouth oh, that's so interesting.

Emma Viglucci:

I love that, you know I. It's interesting when I hear people say I'm a great communicator and there was no pause for somebody else to get one sentence in there. That is not being a great communicator, you're just an overtalker, right, or whatever the word is for that. But yeah, so the give and take, right. That's like that's the good communication part there.

Dr. Serena Goldstein:

Right, right, yeah, yeah. So a lot of times this may show up as thyroid related issues, and actually the sacral chakra and the thyroid and the throat chakra too, are pretty interconnected. We need that creativity. Then we could speak more, we feel more free, you know, along those lines. So yeah. So a lot of thyroid concerns may show up with the throat chakra.

Emma Viglucci:

Right, very good, you know, I've had people who always seem to have a sore throat or like, just like infections that appear like breathing things or just congestions and coughing, like, just like those kind of viruses that kind of seem to affect having a voice right, laryngitis right. Does that fit, does that make sense? I would belong here.

Dr. Serena Goldstein:

I'd say, in a way, one of the things I thought about potentially from the more physical side was I would also be looking at their stress levels to see you know, okay, I'm like wait. Well, actually, what's going on with their immune system?

Emma Viglucci:

That's true, right, you know I'm like wait.

Dr. Serena Goldstein:

Well, actually, what's going on with their immune system?

Emma Viglucci:

That's true right. And you know, maybe some of those chakras too. Which chakra is in charge of the immune system?

Dr. Serena Goldstein:

So I would say, well, I first thought of the adrenal. So again that kind of borders between solar and sacral Right, right, right.

Emma Viglucci:

Okay, interesting Good.

Dr. Serena Goldstein:

Very good yeah.

Emma Viglucci:

And so for the throat, then, what might be some solutions or offerings that we might have to help deal with any blockages there or any manifestations there?

Dr. Serena Goldstein:

of course I say to say what you want to say, especially for women. You know, if it comes to, you know, let's say, someone offers you something, it's more than okay to say no, thank you, just saying, speaking your truth. You know which could also just be, yeah, speaking from the heart, speaking honestly, you know, not always pushing things down, so to speak, see, and, of course, listening you. You know being able to listen and really be engaged, and you know what other people are saying as well beautiful, okay, good, that makes sense, very nice, okay.

Emma Viglucci:

And then we're almost there.

Dr. Serena Goldstein:

Now we're going to the sixth one, which is yes, I was at the third eye right yeah, and so this is too where I you know, I'm aware that you know anxiety, depression, you know a lot of the getting caught in our head can really be a blockage to some of these. So this is sort of where you know where we are looking with our intuition. Or when people say the third eye, you know it's not just the physical of what we see, but it's what are we sensing? What's the energy in the room type deal?

Emma Viglucci:

right, yeah, so if there are any imbalances in the energies here, what might be some symptoms?

Dr. Serena Goldstein:

oh, it could. It could honestly be as simple as people getting caught in their head, like even on the day-to-day wait. What do I do next? Right, you know, it doesn't always have to be a specific diagnosis, but this could always be the. You know, uh, was it? Oh yeah, like I got all these supplements for this, and then if I need to take this for the, you know, it's the overthinking, the, the overanalyzing over the fill in the blank.

Emma Viglucci:

Yeah.

Dr. Serena Goldstein:

Exactly, exactly.

Emma Viglucci:

Ah, very nice. And so that might have this the feel of micromanaging the partner of helicopter, parenting, ocd, depression, anxiety, like all, just like just being in, like all kind of eluded and confused and like tripping yourself up, kind of like overdoing it. Love it, yes, very nice. So what might be some things to counter that?

Dr. Serena Goldstein:

Yoga, yoga, sound healing, really anywhere that it's, you can share, that or not. Like your body doesn't always have to be moving, the mind doesn't always have to be moving, which I will say, on the flip side, is nice. With yoga, like, you'll still get the body moving, potentially as a distraction, but you can also come back within right. So, like where vinyasa is one breath to one pose, it actually can serve a bit of a distraction. But let's say, if you're doing sound healing or a hatha yoga or some of the slower ones, or a yin, then it may actually be a little more challenging, interestingly, because you do need to stay in a posture for a little longer. But these are ways that, yeah, we could certainly train the mind right.

Emma Viglucci:

So, even though you're using your body for the poses and you're focusing on the breathing and breathing is also physical but because you have to focus, you're quiet in the mind and that's part of like that release there, love it very, very nice. Um, you know, I'm thinking some other, some other physical, what might appear to be physical, but that would benefit all of these things that are alternative modalities, like acupuncture, or, you know, recently I came across what's it called um, um sensory deprivation tank. That way you just float. You know, recently.

Dr. Serena Goldstein:

I came across what's it called Sensory deprivation tank.

Emma Viglucci:

That way you just float. Oh right, yeah, those floating tanks, that's on my list of things to try.

Dr. Serena Goldstein:

Okay, yeah, those are great.

Emma Viglucci:

Reiki is also great.

Dr. Serena Goldstein:

So Reiki, I believe they don't touch you in reiki, right, right, um, but it's just more of a sense of, yeah, they're just helping move the energy, they're holding space you could just be there yeah, so any modalities that kind of help the body release the nervous system, kind of let go and just kind of soothe right.

Emma Viglucci:

So breathing techniques, all kinds of different meditation techniques, the grounding, like you said, putting your feet outside on the grass and like that kind of stuff. I'm thinking also havening, I don't know if you're familiar where you just go like this oh great, not rubbing up and down your arms, but rather put for those of you who are not watching the video, who are just listening putting your arms, rubbing your arms down or caressing down. Rubbing down, not up and down, your body, your chest, your legs, your face, and you're caressing down the nervous system registers that as a soothing thing for some reason I don't know the biology behind that, um, but so that's supposed to be really good for for activating the parasympathetic nervous system and releasing or relaxing the the nervous system. So just like a soothing technique and you activate all the healing properties of the parasympathetic and the relaxation parts. So that's something else, so anything to support the body like, ah right, let it go a little bit and just kind of like moving the energy.

Dr. Serena Goldstein:

I love it very good I, I think so much of what we talked about. I just thought of, too, going to a comedy club totally gets you out of your head and you get to be entertained.

Emma Viglucci:

Totally. I mean, if we can get more into the practical, of course. Dancing, sports, regular exercising, whatever people like to do, for sure, playing around with the kids, cuddling up and wrestling, playing with the animals, like all those things too. First of all, your partner, right, right, lovely, okay. So let's go for the last chakra and we're almost out of time here, so let's kind of start wrapping this up, okay so the last chakra is the crown chakra.

Dr. Serena Goldstein:

So where the third eye is purple in color, the crown tends to be, I want to say, a light, very light purple, to look clear. And this is, where, is this, our source of inspiration? So, again, this is where should we be able to keep sitting with ourselves? You know, again, we could move our body a little bit and sometimes our best ideas come from when we are moving our body. That's part of where it filters through is the crown chakra, which is right on the top of the head lovely.

Emma Viglucci:

So if people are having a challenge with the energy up there, how might that might affect manifest in any physical conditions or illnesses?

Dr. Serena Goldstein:

Yeah, so I would say it'd be pretty similar to the third eye where you know they're just not really able to get the ideas. They're just sort of in this. Okay, let me just sit and wait for the you, for the idea to the idea to pop in. Yeah, it's. You know, when people talk about being blocked, maybe brain fogged, um, just not feeling like themselves, headaches, yes, oh, headaches. Or headaches, migraines, yeah, sleep would be pretty. Sleep issues would be associated with that. It can be. I would say it depends. I would say sleep is more of the lower chakras. Oh, interesting, yeah, just because you know you're falling asleep, you want to feel safe?

Dr. Serena Goldstein:

oh, okay, right, right, you know it's a thought but it's true, because then, on the flip side, if someone can't fall asleep because their mind is just constantly going, that's what I was thinking. Exactly. Yeah, that it could certainly be. You know, one of the higher chakras.

Emma Viglucci:

Yeah, very interesting, lovely, good, and then, as a solution, support for that.

Dr. Serena Goldstein:

Solutions will kind of be similar to the third eye and some of the others is just to be able to sit with yourself. I would say, and again I would say, reiki is a great one. Sound healing is fantastic anywhere, any practice that you can just know, that you can be in your body but also have divine inspiration and kind of balance. You know and balance those two. So again, these could be some of those more physical practices or things like sound healing, chanting, which is also good for the throat chakra, but in those more high vibrational environments as well.

Emma Viglucci:

Oh, very nice, Right? So I'm thinking stillness too, it's interesting because it's counter the movement, right. But maybe stillness of the mind, not necessarily so much the body or both, depends on what might serve. But when we get quiet, if we stop with the social media and the scrolling and the swiping and the binging, netflix and like all of the noise, noise, noise, you know, like if you could just kind of chill out for a second, go look at the stars, go sit in the sun, go look at the birds, like just kind of like be in nature and just kind of like be like that inspiration might come, like you could actually listen, hear something else or sense something else. So you're open for that inspiration. The ideas are supposed to. Just all this stuff comes in and you can't even hear yourself think, right, you don't even know what you're thinking exactly yep definitely very, very nice, very cool.

Emma Viglucci:

So, in all, let's try to see if we could tie it all together right, because that was a lengthy conversation around the chakras. So how will we tie that awareness and information base about the chakras to the physical well-being and the mental well-being? How can we kind of put a bow on that piece?

Dr. Serena Goldstein:

Yeah, so I believe there's ways that the chakras represent so much of that mental, emotional. The chakras represent so much of that mental, emotional and also physical and spiritual. And, as we talked a lot about mental health, it's not just about neurotransmitters, it's not just about behavior, but it's these different aspects that are intertwined that the chakras are such a nice example, too, of different aspects that people can also research a little further, whether they want to take it into crystals or clothes or other foods, or, you know, different practices. There's foods you can eat for the chakras. You can really, you can really go at it. And so you know there's so many different ways in thinking of, when thinking when it comes to wellness. That, again, when we go down the certain risk factors, it's not, you know, it's not just okay. A couple of them, and here's a prescription it's okay. Where's the person out? Where's their belief system? Can they expand their mind? Do they even want to? And then where do we go from there?

Emma Viglucci:

Right, very good. So if these ideas are new to somebody, because if people are not familiar with the ideas of chakras or energy bundles or the you know just just this side of things, and they might be stuck a little bit in in the pills, the pills, all the pills, right, and just overdoing all of the pills, or just overdoing it one particular angle, how can we introduce them to? There's so much more that meets the eyes and that impacts everything, and it might be hard to stretch into that at first, but how can we embrace other things too, just to have our own back in different ways?

Dr. Serena Goldstein:

I would say start where you're comfortable. If where you're comfortable is mostly supplements and maybe some flower essences because sometimes that's more energy medicine, that could even be a little esoteric, Right Then fine, we start there. If it's mostly food you want to start with, fantastic. As I said, I go through a lot of diet diaries.

Emma Viglucci:

Right.

Dr. Serena Goldstein:

If you do want to start moving into shoppers, then I would actually recommend going to a library. Going to a library or a Barnes Noble where at least you have a set amount of books and you're not scouring thousands of pages off Google While then getting fatigued from the technology at the same time. So at least a book you can sit down with. Um, yeah, I mean I'm blanking on some authors, but again, books will give you a finite you know amount to look at again, again, versus how many Google pages.

Emma Viglucci:

Right Contain the amount of like you get those that you need to explore something.

Dr. Serena Goldstein:

Oh, I love that Very good.

Emma Viglucci:

So as a journey, we have all the physical, like we were saying, the physical, the mental, this emotional, this spiritual. We're just covering all of the bases here. Any last minute thoughts as to how to be open to integrating or or addressing all four bodies. And there's all the bodies, but like we'll focus on these for for this conversation, people are like what, what is going on right now? I thought I had one body, but so, yeah, you know what's like a thought, like a parting thought, for just kind of being open to working all the angles and having supporting ourselves the best that we can and nourishing ourselves the best that we can.

Dr. Serena Goldstein:

Well, I like how you said it is that being open. Maybe if chakras don't resonate for you but sound healing got some wheels turning, well then don't worry about going to the bookstore for chakras and all of that quite yet, and maybe just find a sound healing class. Maybe Reiki sounded really interesting? Fantastic, go, try, try it. Maybe you just really want to stick with pills and that's your mo. Great, we have a. There's so many different ways we can go because, even though we're addressing the physical body, we're still going to be addressing the mental, emotional and ultimately, yes, that divine wisdom and how we think about ourselves, and all that good stuff beautiful, very, very nice.

Emma Viglucci:

Um, so I will add there that to to be on on a health and wellness journey like this and to try to take care of ourselves in all the good ways, in all the different ways, takes courage, and I commend people for wanting to take care of themselves and being open to doing in different ways, not to just do it one particular way and getting stuck there. It's not really serving them, but they don't want to try different ways. They keep doing the same thing over and over and it's not really working it. It takes courage to explore different things, and so kudos to those people and to have compassion. Right, I think that you had that as a thought that you wanted to offer, so, like anything with that that you want to use as parting words, yeah, I I believe that's a great point is having compassion for yourself.

Dr. Serena Goldstein:

The healing journey is not linear, by any means Right. It can sometimes feel like a doozy, but it can sometimes be very rewarding. And that's what it is. It's a journey, it's being able to constantly know ourselves and, you know, try all these different modalities, which isn't it fantastic. On the flip side, we do have so many modalities and so many different ways of healing that are now out there.

Emma Viglucci:

Totally so no judgment for ourselves if we're bumping around a little bit right Just with love, compassion and grace and ease. This is our second conversation recorded. We had others but so grateful for you and your resourcefulness and how much wisdom and just yumminess you bring and anybody who's lucky to work with you, who chooses to work with you, I know that they will get a lot for all of the bodies and for all of the ways and all of the things. So thank you so much for being you and for sharing yourself with me and the audience, and I really appreciate you.

Dr. Serena Goldstein:

And thank you so much for having me.

Emma Viglucci:

Of course, of course, and to the audience until the next one. Bye.

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Emma K Viglucci, LMFT

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